Alliances in Conquest

[BuscoNombre]

I would like to discuss about this topic at the state of the server, but as i wont be at that time probably, i want to bring it here.

I have been thinking about this during several months and with a few experience on this server and conquest i noticed that the conquest system has been a bit unfair. Since i join the server everytime a town gets on control of a continent, they are part of a big alliance. I have seen this from boths sides, back in asmund i remember winning battles against eldritch just because we were 6-5 towns against 1-2, not for being better at pvp as i think conquest is suppose to be. Then i joined Cincia and i started to belive more that conquest was unfair, how is posible that sometimes a there are players getting 20-30 kills in a battle and still lose just because they are a lonely town fighting against a big alliance with more members. I think that actually conquest is more about of being more friendly to others towns than about pvp.

Maybe removing the alliance or changing them a bit will also give more chances to new towns, since right now the only way to grow up is joining an alliance and maybe they will give u some land. Plus sometimes big towns are just big not because they are active and good at pvp, if not just because they have allies that can defend their lands whenever they want. I think this way conquest will be more dynamic and will make every town be active and put more effort if they want to have a big town with lands, also it can maybe promote instead of having 2-3members towns, having bigger towns that can also make a better gaming experience.

Reins will still be a thing, and friendly towns will still be friendly, so big fights will still happen and relationships and diplomacy will still have a role in conquest but without being more important than pvp like it is right now

 

[koi0001]

I see you're point but at the same time I believe Alliances work the way they do for a good reason; if a bunch of towns teamed up and got just loads of man power from separate towns and forged an alliance through politics and organisation then I believe that it perfectly represents the ethos of the server. If the Conquest system was supposedly just meant to be who's better at pvp 100%, I'd certainly agree with you. However, I believe that conquest is much more than simply writing it off as a who's better at pvp. In my eyes the best way to describe conquest is a very strategic system. If you have the strategy to offer other towns supplies in return for help in battles then it makes perfect sense to me personally as to why they'd be better at conquest then a anti-social town that mainly focuses on PVPers.

In all honesty I see a perfect example of what I think you mean; The Karazeem vs Iblis. The Karazeem is a small alliance currently that has little numbers in comparison to Iblis, Most of their fights become 1v2's. I believe what's going on there is a perfect example. They're small towns going up against a big alliance with many players, but that's the sprite of Conquest I believe.

I don't believe nerfing Alliances is the answer. However, I believe alliances should be built on as a server feature.

 

[Cryptite]

I'm not sure I fully understand your suggestions here. Or rather you either seem to say that we should remove alliances or change them, but you don't suggest how. As of right now, the only thing you gain by being in an Alliance is an extra chat channel. Beyond that, there is literally no difference between a town of 20 players and 4 towns with 5 players each. That is the reason the Alliances work the way they do.

the only way to grow up is joining an alliance and maybe they will give u some land

This isn't true, you could have this exact same problem anywhere whether the town was in an Alliance or not.

how is posible that sometimes a there are players getting 20-30 kills in a battle and still lose just because they are a lonely town fighting against a big alliance with more members

Because kills are not how you win Conquest battles. It's completing the objectives that gets you the win. If your players are merely focused on kills over charges, then you're not focusing on the objectives. Naturally killing players makes the objectives easier to capture.

The issue overall is that people are assigning more value to Alliances than there naturally are. Strength in numbers is, indeed, a key to success in Conquest and many wars, but you don't have to be in an Alliance to have numbers. You merely need to be coordinated, skilled at PvP. If neither of those things is getting you wins, then maybe numbers is your key.

 

[koi0001]

The issue overall is that people are assigning more value to Alliances than there naturally are. Strength in numbers is, indeed, a key to success in Conquest and many wars, but you don't have to be in an Alliance to have numbers. You merely need to be coordinated, skilled at PvP. If neither of those things is getting you wins, then maybe numbers is your key.

#

It only takes one simple gander over to Eldritch Bot to show that it's not as simple as strength in numbers; it's precision in numbers.

 

[BuscoNombre]

Ik is about objective, but maybe in simple word what i want to say that conquest has been rewarding diplomacy over pvp skills. Ik that in big battles the pvp cordination wins, but what about when a new towns comes and tries to fight an alliance, its sometime almost imposible to win a fight, even when u are more cordinated and u have more pvp skills.

Btw sorry i think i placed this thread in the wrong spot, it should be in general discussion not suggestion

 

[BuscoNombre]

As of right now, the only thing you gain by being in an Alliance is an extra chat channel

And about this i think u get more than just a chat channel, as i said u get the chance of ur allies fighting for ur town, even when sometimes nobody from the town that is getting attacked shows up. Also with the new taxes the alliance leader can pay for the upkeep of a town. Ofc they can still die for inactivity and they still need to pay some taxes, but just saying for example, a town can hold 30 territories just having 1-2 members active and placing a 4-6k shards into the tgen every 2-3 weeks (that with RI is really easy to get)

 

[Magpieman]

The point is having many towns in one alliance is the same as having one big town. The only difference is you have more land to build good looking towns and have to have more active members in order to keep all the towns alive. We have changed the system over time so that an alliance functions the same as a single town in pretty much every way.

As for new towns, the argument could go both ways. If there were no alliances, one big town could smash a new town and they would have no way of getting help other than reins for 1 fight a day. However, with alliances, they can join up with other towns and have a chance at competing against those who have large numbers. The advantage, of course, is they can build in their own style and have more freedom building their own town rather than living under the strict rule of another town owner.

 

[Wizardteepot]

I understand the fear of not being able to start a new town, especially if you're a group of three nomads with little gear trying to fight on a big Alliance's land. With so much land being claimed by large alliances, it's very hard for new towns to...well...exist. Most of the land that's owned anyways isn't even used, but major towns benefit from it through territory strength and industries, rather than building infrastructure. So here's two solutions I can possibly see towards that: one, a new continent, where new players and old alliances battle out for a new slice of land, or two, like Auru and Arvik have done many of times in the past, go to a Nomadic Inhibitor and *help them*. Sometimes it takes a kick in pride to the big Alliances to get some really cool looking towns [Ex: Silverhand].

 

[Cryptite]

Unfortunately a 4th continent, while exciting at first, wouldn't take much more than maybe 1 or 2 months before it was dominated by whatever the most powerful force that moved there was.

The only other solution I can think of is to further increase the cost of owning territories so that it remains difficult to hold them without significant resource acquisition. The "Top 3" don't see to be having an issue paying for their areas.

 

[koi0001]

Unfortunately a 4th continent, while exciting at first, wouldn't take much more than maybe 1 or 2 months before it was dominated by whatever the most powerful force that moved there was.

The only other solution I can think of is to further increase the cost of owning territories so that it remains difficult to hold them without significant resource acquisition. The "Top 3" don't see to be having an issue paying for their areas.

Interesting suggestion, I'd like to reference the old mechanic of mobs attacking Tgens. I'm fully aware this is considerably far away from the subject at hand. However, I'd suggest that adding something like this to add pressure to holding a big alliances could overall make for a more interesting game mechanic. I'd also like to suggest considering putting the guard feature back into practice as I'd consider it to be something that'd put interest into customising towns in terms of RP/lore.

I'd like to agree that a fourth continent wouldn't be at all useful to fix this problem if it is considered a problem. The best way from my point of view to fix this problem is to allow the continents to have more of an affect on one another as to allow for more confrontation between the alliances. I've not got any ideas currently on how this would be given. However, I'd suggest adding a mechanic that would make the alliances that have capital forcefully compete against one another. I'm aware that in affect the towns voting system does this. However, I feel as if it's a form of extremely passive form of competition.

 

[Jammin_Mas]

If I may include my side of this argument, as I have attempted to lead a town in Garama and have found no success against the garamen alliance. I agree that alliances are way too overpowered. The fact of the matter that my 6-12 member town can only call reins one day, and lose 5 territories to a 5 town 50 man army, is way to overpowered. Yes some of these issues have been caused by me personally, but there should be no reason why a town is restricted to one territory, and its fate is controlled by towns who normally would be a good fight, but now overpowered due to the insane alliances.

I have talked to my fellow town members who are infact good friends that I met on minecraft years ago and I have a proposal. Territories should have a cool-down until they can be attacked again, similar to how town ruins work. This way small towns dont lose 25 tiles in 5 days, but instead get reduced to 1-2 tiles a day due to the cooldown. This also allows for more reins to be called meaning better battles and more continent v continent fighting. I also think that alliances should cost more to encourage various alliances in a continent. Yes covenant and garama pay a large fee, but its obviously not large enough to put strain on 6-7 allied towns.

These are just my two cents seeing that I have suffered with the op alliances of todays loka.

Thanks, Maiz

 

[BuscoNombre]

Changing taxes up a bit for alliance would be nice, btw i want to propose the thing that allies can just go to a battle if the town that is being atack activates the beacon, that would make each town actually atleast get on to defend their lands

 

[Padfoot22]

In my opinion, PvP skills do not matter at getting in an alliance at all. It depends on how well you treat other leaders and how active you are. Right now I'm probably the worst PvPer in the history of Loka. But starting my new town, both sides want me to ally with them.

It factors more on how well you understand the Conquest system, how active you are on the server, and how well you are at strategizing attacks and defenses. This can greatly determine how well you can get into an alliance. Another huge factor is how well you treat other people on Loka. I mean look at Tee. He was new, but it didn't take long for him to understand the concepts of Conquest, and if he started a town, people would fight for an alliance with him. He is also active and nice to everyone on the server.

Its not just how well you understand Conquest, but Loka in general. Conquest is just a small part to the complex structure of Loka.

I would never recommend making a town to a new person. They would need several months and understanding of the fundamentals of a town before starting one on their own. Taxes should stay the same so people can realize the amount of work it takes to make a town. Making a town, in terms of alliances, should be planned before executed. It would be stupid to be on a continent where you don't have good ties with any of the leaders. It would be suicide if you were enemies with them.

I agree with Koi's opinion of that the alliance works best through a mutualism system. Great representation of how the alliance should work, then how new people would view it, compared to the overrated PvP system.

 

[Wizardteepot]

I mean look at Tee. He was new, but it didn't take long for him to understand the concepts of Conquest, and if he started a town, people would fight for an alliance with him. He is also active and nice to everyone on the server.

:,^)

 

[Mrp]

As someone who came onto the server and made a small town with only 3 members I can speak to this a bit. When we arrived in Kalros it was dominated by Asmund and there was no way that we would be able to start taking fights off them much less gain any territories. During this time we focused on building and getting our town level higher, while getting to know key players on the server. After some time we saw a diplomatic opportunity to join forces with Hilo and start a war with Asmund, through this we found success and went from a 3 person town to a 2 town alliance that shifted the powers on Kalros. Personally I really like that diplomacy and pvp are important in Loka, like anything in life it is important to make strong connections to move up. I think most players aren't willing to put in the time to figure out a way to reach their goals, most people would rather complain about the situation or just give up all together. The current system rewards persistence, pvp skill, and diplomacy. Nova is another good example of someone who put in a great amount of time into his town and growing it's numbers. As a result of this his town has become a force to be reckoned with. It simply can't happen over night. It takes dedication which leads to an awesome feeling of accomplishment once you have put in the work.

 

[Mtndew98]

I agree with Mrp and Padfoot. People should be encouraged to make connections with other players, put in time, and learn the server if they want to become one of the top towns. ~Valentian Department of Defense.