Cancelling Fights Due to Lag is Not Tolerated

[DeceitfulPear]

Topical title format for visibility/click bait

While I do agree with not cancelling fights just because they are laggy, I personally believe that when something like a critical plugin failure was making the server unplayable during conquest should warrant a FULL reset. Or at least to the point where the issue began (which in this case was the very beginning).

During this fight I was able to write full blown paragraphs in chat while someone was critting me out and I only took 2 hearts of damage and virtually no KB whatsoever. I was also able to get back onto the andesite the rare times I took full KB and the charge was never canceled. When charges are impossible to be stopped, the defenders will win 100% of the time.

Also, while looking back at the wording I can see it was a misunderstanding of what was being said, the majority of our side stopped fighting with the understanding that the fight was going to be fully restarted because it was completely unplayable.

Most of the issues can be seen in this video here: (warning there is some profanity because, well, its conquest)

After the server restarted, our inhib had only 5 charges left and Covenant forces could suicide rush their charges because they knew they only needed a few and that dying wouldn't matter if they just got all of the few charges left. There is also the fact that since they logged on a second or two sooner and got to a beacon sooner, they warped sooner. So when fights are "restarted" I think there should be a few minutes of a grace period so people can also refix their inventories since the lag caused shulkers to be lost and pots to be thrown.

If fights like this are allowed to effect strength I am honestly extremely disappointed in the server. Every bit of strength matters when there is still the possibility of an upset to occur and every fight should be treated as if it decides capital when looking at critical errors in the server that may require a reset. Even the few people I've been able to talk to from Cov about the fight said "If it decided Cap then it should be canceled". People compared this fight to the Dong Dank capital fight earlier this year, but I was there. It was possible to stop charges, believe me. In this fight it was impossible to stop charges.

To organize for people who refuse to read all of my points and want a tl;dr I will list the changes I believe should be made below:

1. Fights should be reset to the point of the critical failure if at all possible.
2. A few minutes until the beacon can be activated for the final minute to warp should be added when the server restarts to fix the problem.
3. The strength for said fight should be reset.

If anyone says this fight doesn't matter so it shouldn't be reset, think about how a new player would feel if that fight was allowed and it was their first conquest fight. Even seasons Lokan veterans, myself included, are extremely frustrated that it was allowed to continue the way it was.

Its early, I'm hungry, and my dog won't leave me alone so I apologize for any glaring grammar/structural issues present in this post.

 

[GoodAtTheGame]

I agree with pear. Badnoob laggy fights need to be cancelled regardless of the fact that an alliance is way ahead in strength. YOU nEVER KNOW WAT COULD HAPPEN in THE LaST weeK of conquest. COV COULD PULL a Fast OnE on EM.

 

[Inapplicable]

lmao ur just salty cause you lost

 

[Teyuh]

I agree if a fight is that laggy its unplayable and as pear said defenders would win 100% of the time. In my opinion the fight should just be removed and/or reset so everyone has another go at the fight.

 

[Inapplicable]

I agree if a fight is that laggy its unplayable and as pear said defenders would win 100% of the time. In my opinion the fight should just be removed and/or reset so everyone has another go at the fight.

lmao u only agree cause ur on his side LMAO

 

[GoodAtTheGame]

LOOK AT THIS EPICNESS

 

[ArcherSquid]

LOOK AT THIS EPICNESS

very legit charge

 

[catfishjw]

Its early, I'm hungry, and my dog won't leave me alone so I apologize for any glaring grammar/structural issues present in this post.

My life in a nutshell

 

[Sparky___]

I was also able to get back onto the andesite the rare times I took full KB and the charge was never canceled.

While this is not something I experienced (for reference I got at least 3 charges), I have heard others make it clear that this was the case for them. I did experience a visual glitch in which the charge bar (?) would fill, but then reset.

LOOK AT THIS EPICNESS

Good clear evidence of what was happening there.

When charges are impossible to be stopped, the defenders will win 100% of the time.

This ignores what actually happened in the fight. Both attackers and defenders (as I am told by fellow teammates who were doing the knocking) were being knocked off charges and even losing their charges. The trouble is, we cannot get a clear understanding as to what extent this happened without being able to see the full logs of the fight. However, I assume your argument that defenders will win 100% of the time is a result of the simple fact that less is required to take down an inhibitor. I do not think this is necessarily going to be the case "100%" of the time, but in situations where lag is a factor, I think it is fairly likely, because 10/10 hit registering.

After the server restarted, our inhib had only 5 charges left and Covenant forces could suicide rush their charges because they knew they only needed a few and that dying wouldn't matter if they just got all of the few charges left.

(Minor details) Upon restart the inhibitor actually had 6 charges. To be specific, the front and back lamps were both at 40% and the side lamps were both at 20%. Your point about suicide rushing is entirely accurate, but this very well could and/or would have been the case if there was no lag. As such, I hesitate to say this should be used to make any sort of argument one way or the other.

There is also the fact that since they logged on a second or two sooner and got to a beacon sooner, they warped sooner. So when fights are "restarted" I think there should be a few minutes of a grace period[...].

Yes, definitely. I think everyone is able to agree that this needs to be more refined so that upon server restarts during fights, this is handled in a fair way.

In this fight it was impossible to stop charges.

I would really like to emphasize that people were being knocked off charges. I myself lost at least 1 charge and I know at least one other person lost 2 (This is only what I am decidedly aware of, so I would not immediately dismiss this).

If anyone says this fight [...] shouldn't be reset[...].

This is pretty much the thing I've been stuck on for a while now. I've tried to look at this fight a varying number of ways and have rehashed my original thoughts and my thoughts after that, and so on. The only sensible conclusion I myself have been able to come to is that we (us lowly serfs) do not have enough information to analyze to be able to conclusively say that any server side lag disproportionately affects one side or another.

What I see is that hit registering was almost non-existent for most people for a majority of the fight (Sadly, the many crits I got on Archer were not meant to be) Additionally, that people on all sides were able to be knocked off charges --- to some extent. It seems likely to me that some people on both sides may also have experienced a glitch(?) (or lag?) allowing them to get knocked off and still get off a charge, but this is conjecture.

I do not at all agree that fights should be reset with the consideration that new players might be displeased with how that fight went. I think that is entirely irrelevant to the situation. To be fair, I do not know that this fight should or should not be reset. I am very nervous about setting precedents for fight resets. What I do agree with, on a fundamental level, is that moving forward all fights should be paused in these situations, so as to limit incidents like this where there may be a level of unfairness. I do hope and believe that Crypt and Mag will take a hard look at this situation and come up with a decision, because this is obviously something that is going to linger for a good long while (whether or not is addressed).

Lastly, wanted to add that I do not think an "oh it lagged and you did not take advantage of that" mentality is appropriate in this situation either.

 

[Rivvur]

Well, this is the first thing I've ever done on the forums, so here it goes.

So, Sparky, in your rebuttal there are some major flaws that you failed to list.

This ignores what actually happened in the fight. Both attackers and defenders (as I am told by fellow teammates who were doing the knocking) were being knocked off charges and even losing their charges. The trouble is, we cannot get a clear understanding as to what extent this happened without being able to see the full logs of the fight. However, I assume your argument that defenders will win 100% of the time is a result of the simple fact that less is required to take down an inhibitor. I do not think this is necessarily going to be the case "100%" of the time, but in situations where lag is a factor, I think it is fairly likely, because 10/10 hit registering.

While this is true, and you mentioned defenders would win mostly, it is impossible for the defenders to lose if they realise what is going on or have half a brain. Just look at the facts:
1. An inhibitor and territory generator both have 4 lamps with 5 charges. But, the main strength of a territory generator in fights like this is the core. Account the core into play and the lag, the attackers have to go through 20 charges and the core (which who knows how long the core would take to go down with that lag) while the defenders only have to go through only 20 laggy charges (which makes it much easier for charges to get off on both sides).
2. No one could die in that fight. I went AFK for around 30 seconds and came back with only 2 hearts of damage. Whoever that was trying to kill me gave up. Usually, in the recent fights against the Covenant, kills has been the big decider in fights and not the charges or amount of players. This fight heavily manipulated gameplay dropping the TPS down very low, and making normal tactics or killing impossible. You could not kill in that fight, affecting gameplay and the outcome greatly. I'm not saying "Oh if there was no lag we would have won" but the lag changed the outcome of the fight by miles.

A comeback is still possible from Covenant, and when every tick of strength matters, laggy fights when a plugin blows should be taken seriously like if it decides world cap. It could.

Sorry if there are any grammatical errors or flaws, quick post.

 

[DeceitfulPear]

What I do agree with, on a fundamental level, is that moving forward all fights should be paused in these situations, so as to limit incidents like this where there may be a level of unfairness. I do hope and believe that Crypt and Mag will take a hard look at this situation and come up with a decision, because this is obviously something that is going to linger for a good long while (whether or not is addressed)

That's the main problem is the server would've been restarted instantly and it was the fact that Crypt and Magpie were busy that it instead got restarted after most of the charges went off. It was due to the unavailability of key staff members that the fight went the way it did and due to this, players are being essentially punished with a loss.

I do not blame them for being busy, this is not their main job and they're human and only two people. They aren't as omniscient as many of us like to believe. But if they were available right away the fight would've been delayed until the issue was sorted and things would have gone in very differently.

And also:

I do not at all agree that fights should be reset with the consideration that new players might be displeased with how that fight went.

This was more of a point of every fight being treated the same. If this was allowed as a key deciding factor of who became capital, many players both old and new would be upset to the point where they would consider leaving the server or at the very least begin to distrust how the server is run.

Mainly I want to know if this fight would not be redone/canceled in anyway if this was a deciding factor in capital. If it would be, then why is every fight not considered with the same mentality.

We may not be able to fix issues that happened far in the past, but we can start setting new precedents and figuring out such issues now so they never become a problem again.

 

[Teyuh]

(Minor details) Upon restart the inhibitor actually had 6 charges. To be specific, the front and back lamps were both at 40% and the side lamps were both at 20%. Your point about suicide rushing is entirely accurate, but this very well could and/or would have been the case if there was no lag. As such, I hesitate to say this should be used to make any sort of argument one way or the other.

Yes but when you looked at the inhib (our inhib) it had 3 lamps out and 1 with one charge left (back charge) I was at the inhib most of the time and i kept looking. The only lamp that was on was the back one with one charge left.

 

[bat3415]

Yes but when you looked at the inhib (our inhib) it had 3 lamps out and 1 with one charge left (back charge) I was at the inhib most of the time and i kept looking. The only lamp that was on was the back one with one charge left.

You can argue the other points but the fact that the inhibitor had 6 charges left on restart is indisputable, the logs on EB only start after the restart and show the defenders successfully putting 6 charges on the inhibitor lamps.

 

[Qfu]

Wow, this is free likes !

 

[ArcherSquid]

hi so ya i was wondering when this fight is going to get rolled back!???