Suggestion Item Ownership and How to Protect Players from Abusive Town Owners

[Magpieman]

We have looked into the rules surrounding town owners on numerous occasions in the past. However every time we have come to the same conclusion, that the current rules are the best way to handle town owners and the ownership of items. The reason for this is there is no way to know who owns what items. It always becomes one persons word over anothers. When does an item become someones? What if they take it from a public area of town? What if it's stolen from a town member? What if it was traded? What if an item has changed hands multiple times in a short space of time? Even if we had a solution that answered all of those questions how do we track and prove how someone obtained an item. It would be an impossible task for staff to constantly chase ownership of items. The best solution we have at the moment is a blanket rule that anything within the town is property of the town owners.

Something we could do is make all items that are stat tracked and lored by a player get sent to their escrow when they are kicked from a town.

Another possible solution was discussed in this previous thread.

Loka Forums

Official forums for the popular Loka Minecraft Server

www.lokamc.com

Something we don't want to do is introduce protected/personal storage, such as larger/infinite ender chests. Raiding, while challenging, is an important part of the server and we don't want items ever being 100% safe. Even in the highest security towns there is always a risk of doors being left open, holes being left or players following you invis into your town. This is why when we designed Void Storage we made sure that items could always be accessed and never hidden in the void.

Please post any ideas you have, even if not perfect it may help further the discussion. Equally if you think the existing solution is good or needs a small tweak, let us know!

 

[Steve5729]

I like the lore idea. Also, town members should be entitled to items in zones they are the ONLY owner of (excluding owners)

 

[Magpieman]

I like the lore idea. Also, town members should be entitled to items in zones they are the ONLY owner of (excluding owners)

What happens if they steal items from another member and take them into their personal zone? The issue with this is staff would have to try and work out whether the item was stolen or not, which would not be sustainable to do.

 

[BuscoNombre]

I come with two solutions:

A: Boths involve sides show their arguments and we make a poll, every lokan can vote. The winner keeps the items

B: A pig race on a road of fire. The winner keeps the items (This is by far the most fair)

 

[Silver911]

Maybe anything you put in YOUR house or chests, is qualified as yours. Or ownership of a chest where if you do a custom craft or command maybe, you can lock your chest for only you to use unless your town falls. I'm thinking this is too much alike ender chests but, Daddy Magpie asked us all to give our ideas so..

 

[koi0001]

If only there was a way to confirm with owners from the start that an item certainly does belong to you . Essentially what I'm suggesting here is that town owners would have command that specifically states that XYZ item is owned by player.

I can appreciate that this method is only effective if players use it from the start. It doesn't fix that problem that the server faces but it certainly allows for the players to have a sense of insurance from the start in regards to high value items such as shulkers, lored items and so forth.

 

[NerdieBirdieYT]

Boths involve sides show their arguments and we make a poll, every lokan can vote. The winner keeps the items

Please no, public opinion is too easily swayed, there needs to be a defining rule.

Maybe anything you put in YOUR house or chests, is qualified as yours. Or ownership of a chest where if you do a custom craft or command maybe, you can lock your chest for only you to use unless your town falls. I'm thinking this is too much alike ender chests but, Daddy Magpie asked us all to give our ideas so..

This would be awful in my opinion, not because the idea is bad, but because then you’d have to make rulings for things like if the player goes inactive, or leaves the Town, or what if they take from the Town storage and put items in their chest, or what if they’re hoarding...

If only there was a way to confirm with owners from the start that an item certainly does belong to you . Essentially what I'm suggesting here is that town owners would have command that specifically states that XYZ item is owned by player.

I can appreciate that this method is only effective if players use it from the start. It doesn't fix that problem that the server faces but it certainly allows for the players to have a sense of insurance from the start in regards to high value items such as shulkers, lored items and so forth.

This would be painfully slow to do for large Towns and for Towns adding a player who already owns a lot of things. And what if the Owner refuses to do the command? If a rule is to exist, it should limit Owners’ powers and give common folk certain inalienable rights

 

[catfishjw]

Idk anything about how this could work, but what if every item has a log of who had it and when, using that we can decide who’s it really was before the incident

 

[NerdieBirdieYT]

Idk anything about how this could work, but what if every item has a log of who had it and when, using that we can decide who’s it really was before the incident

The issue here in making a rule is that Towns are meant to be extremely cooperative, with members working on projects together and merging resources. What if Person A donates 200 diamonds they mined to the Town, then decides they want them back? Is the Town Owner scamming them if they refuse? Are the diamonds ALWAYS theirs?

Honestly, this is a really rough situation to try to make a rule for, and I don’t know an easy solution.

 

[koi0001]

This would be painfully slow to do for large Towns and for Towns adding a player who already owns a lot of things. And what if the Owner refuses to do the command? If a rule is to exist, it should limit Owners’ powers and give common folk certain inalienable rights

That's why this is a sense of insurance from the start, if a town owner refuses this to a player that's an immediate red flag.

Let's take the most recent situation for example: With this method Djscales would of immediately been able to confirm the safety of his items from the start of joining the town before moving over his more important items.

Obiviously like any suggestion there are flaws but realistically saying,

If a rule is to exist, it should limit Owners’ powers and give common folk certain inalienable rights

is to hopeful in my opinion and would never yield an actual rule change due to how difficult it would be to work with in mind.

This would be painfully slow to do for large Towns and for Towns adding a player who already owns a lot of things.

Honestly I'm unsure on why you believe this would be a lengthy process unless the player owned a considerable amount of items. To make this process as streamlined as possible I'd suggest making it a menu the same as linking in public chat. It would show a menu of items and all items that are clicked become ingrained with the "owned by [player]".

Also I feel as if it's worth saying that very few towns are big enough for this to be overwhelming for the owner unless everyone demanded this happen to their stuff at once which would only really happen if this was to be implemented.

I strongly believe that this is an issue that the server will ever be able to completely fix. The best the server can do is implement features or minor rules which may make it difficult but never down right avoidable if a player chooses to do it.

EDIT: Tried making it easier to read

Apologies if this was kind of vague and confusing at parts: I'm extremely tired and as usual sending this from a phone.

 

[NerdieBirdieYT]

That's why this is a sense of insurance from the start, if a town owner refuses this to a player that's an immediate red flag.

Let's take the most recent situation for example: With this method Djscales would of immediately been able to confirm the safety of his items from the start of joining the town before moving over his more important items.

Obiviously like any suggestion there are flaws but realistically saying, "If a rule is to exist, it should limit Owners’ powers and give common folk certain inalienable rights " is to hopeful in my opinion and would never yield an actual rule change due to how difficult it would be to work with in mind.

"This would be painfully slow to do for large Towns and for Towns adding a player who already owns a lot of things"

Honestly I'm unsure on why you believe this would be a lengthy process unless the player owned a considerable amount of items. To make this process as streamlined as possible I'd suggest making it a menu the same as linking in public chat. It would show a menu of items and all items that are clicked become ingrained with the "owned by [player]".

Also I feel as if it's worth saying that very few towns are big enough for this to be overwhelming for the owner unless everyone demanded this happen to their stuff at once which would only really happen if this was to be implemented.

I strongly believe that this is an issue that the server will ever be able to completely fix. The best the server can do is implement features or minor rules which may make it difficult but never down right avoidable if a player chooses to do it.

Apologies if this was kind of vague and confusing at parts: I'm extremely tired and as usual sending this from a phone.

I say it would be slow, especially for established players, because unless you can mark shulkers full of stuff, players with lots of goodies they want safe would take forever to process.

Additionally, this concept favors older/more established players, because newfriends aren’t going to know this exists. Town Owners will. All a recruiting Town Owner would have to do to circumvent this is not tell their recruits about this feature.

 

[koi0001]

I say it would be slow, especially for established players, because unless you can mark shulkers full of stuff, players with lots of goodies they want safe would take forever to process.

I disagree, a player would only really be using this feature with particularly useful items. An example of this would be diamond armour, xp bottles and vital resources. I doubt many players are going to be moving inventory's of a shulkers at a time much less of significantly important items. Ultimately this features use would be between the town owner and player in question but I heavily doubt more seasoned players would be requesting large quantities of these items to be processed. From experience I'm aware players that travel between towns like to keep the bulk of their stuff in one place at a time and traveling with near bare minimum.

Additionally, this concept favors older/more established players, because newfriends aren’t going to know this exists. Town Owners will. All a recruiting Town Owner would have to do to circumvent this is not tell their recruits about this feature.

I don't believe this would be an issue or at least this would be in issue that does not have an easy remedy. Loka already has many methods of dispersing information; NPC's, chat tips and even joining a town popups.

If the issue is that the lack of knowledge new players possess I'm confident this is an easy fix.

 

[NerdieBirdieYT]

I disagree, a player would only really be using this feature with particularly useful items. An example of this would be diamond armour, xp bottles and vital resources. I doubt many players are going to be moving inventory's of a shulkers at a time much less of significantly important items. Ultimately this features use would be between the town owner and player in question but I heavily doubt more seasoned players would be requesting large quantities of these items to be processed. From experience I'm aware players that travel between towns like to keep the bulk of their stuff in one place at a time and traveling with near bare minimum.



I don't believe this would be an issue or at least this would be in issue that does not have an easy remedy. Loka already has many methods of dispersing information; NPC's, chat tips and even joining a town popups.

If the issue is that the lack of knowledge new players possess I'm confident this is an easy fix.

Good point about letting new players know, although I still disagree that it would be a quick and easy process - personally, if I were to move Towns, I would want to take heads, blood, and event items along with god sets and valuables.

 

[Steve5729]

Good point about letting new players know, although I still disagree that it would be a quick and easy process - personally, if I were to move Towns, I would want to take heads, blood, and event items along with god sets and valuables.

This got me thinking, what about a specific list of items that can't be taken by owners. I believe this is already the case with dragon eggs so why not just add some stuff?

 

[Skuhoo]

This got me thinking, what about a specific list of items that can't be taken by owners. I believe this is already the case with dragon eggs so why not just add some stuff?

That rule was removed.

 

[DFG1125]

Something we could do is make all items that are stat tracked and lored by a player get sent to their escrow when they are kicked from a town.

This is a good idea, but the problem with it is that if someone takes the sword from combat for example or traded it away (see jibblypop collector of lore swords). What happens when someone who lost their sword in whatever way mentioned above, then get kicked from their town. Do they just get it back from the person they lost it to?

 

[Steve5729]

This is a good idea, but the problem with it is that if someone takes the sword from combat for example or traded it away (see jibblypop collector of lore swords). What happens when someone who lost their sword in whatever way mentioned above, then get kicked from their town. Do they just get it back from the person they lost it to?

I'd assume this would be a situation where if the lore weapon was taken by the owner then staff would have it returned

 

[Grubul]

This discussion is scary for the future of loka aswell.

While we want to nerf town owners, we want to keep raiding a thing. Lored sword item shouldn't be considered soulbound quality - to be returned to the one who owns it?

Ill just quietly voice it that I don't think there's a rule we can come up with that wouldn't burden admins insanely.

We simply have to shame and boycott town owners that steal from their members.

The game is all about sharing. We don't want to ruin raiding or make owners scared from touching a single chest while building a project.

 

[BuscoNombre]

It seems the pig race on a road of fire is the only solid and possible solution

 

[catfishjw]

e simply have to shame and boycott town owners that steal from their members.

The only problem I see with this is that new players just have to live and learn, that makes them hesitant to trust others and probably would cause them to quit