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Suggestion Rules Pt.1

mindblaster007

Well-Known Member
Change rule 1.4 to apply outside of raiding as well. It's completely ridiculous that a player can burn 3 hours of mining resources just cause they feel like it. It's also very disturbing when you go to visit a town that just fell, and you see PvPers killing PvErs for the loot, yet they are despawning whole shulkers, books, and lored items that the historical community would consider priceless. Especially when those items would be later gathered once the PvPers moved out.
 
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Cryptite

Elder
Staff member
Elder
yet they are despawning whole shulkers, books, and lored items that the historical community would consider priceless

Have you personally observed this? Most players on the server recognize that things in ruined towns, which are often picked clean (of their best items) within a few hours of one falling, are potentially, if not extremely valuable.
 
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mindblaster007

Well-Known Member
Have you personally observed this? Most players on the server recognize that things in ruined towns, which are often picked clean (of their best items) within a few hours of one falling, are potentially, if not extremely valuable.
Yes, I witnessed this twice over the past week right when towns feel. Today, when Con fell, I got there within 5 minutes approx. and actively observed obuth, and one other, killing people while also emptying shulkers' books, lore, and items linked to towns that existed ages ago on the ground to be respawned. After getting killed, I returned approx. 10 minutes later, they were gone and items were still all over the floor to be respawned.

As for the throwing away of resources, I didn't exactly witness it, but I was told that they had done it. I was also told by others that they too had been killed at RIs for their "set" and told they burned the resources so don't bother returning. I tried explaining both of these things, and more, to Skuhoo two or three days ago, and he accused me of trying to bend the rules and "trolling" because I stated that the rules are ancient and could use some revising. Henceforth my decision to write this thread which I planned on posting a Pt. 2 to.
 

Skuhoo

Administrator
Staff member
Elder
I tried explaining both of these things, and more, to Skuhoo two or three days ago, and he accused me of trying to bend the rules and "trolling" because I stated that the rules are ancient and could use some revising. Henceforth my decision to write this thread which I planned on posting a Pt. 2 to
I accused you of trolling during our conversation because you were trying to argue that a riding a pig through a hole in a wall is "glitch breaking blocks". I never said you were trying to bend the rules so I'm not sure what you're referring to with that.
 

mindblaster007

Well-Known Member
I accused you of trolling because you were trying to argue that a riding a pig through a hole in a wall is "glitch breaking blocks". I never said you were trying to bend the rules so I'm not sure what you're referring to with that.
My bad, the exact word you used was "shoehorn"ing. And I wasn't arguing it was breaking blocks; I was arguing that rule states, "3.4. Don't use vehicles to pass through walls." A pig, for all intents and purposes, in this case, is a vehicle. A normal player can not fit through a 1x1 without help from a pig. Even you said, "The rules page isn't a legal document. It's to be read within the context of Minecraft and with a level of common sense." Common sense says that if a player can't do it normally but can with a vehicle, it must violate rule 3.4. I don't mean to push this point further; I'm just using this as an example to show that the rules are from a time when things were simpler with the game and that it wouldn't help to revise, rewrite, and review some of the rules to make everyone's lives a little easier and prevent any possible "shoehorning". These days Guardians aren't even sure of the rules, and we have to ask two or three to be sure of things because the first one redirects us to someone else.

Edit: I said wouldn't help, I meant wouldn't hurt.
 
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Skuhoo

Administrator
Staff member
Elder
I wasn't arguing it was breaking blocks; I was arguing that rule states, "3.4. Don't use vehicles to pass through walls."

I explained to you why we don't consider pig raiding to be a violation of rule 3.4. After that you tried to instead claim it violated 3.3 which is "Don't attempt to glitch break blocks or open locked doors/gates in protected areas in order to access chests etc":
[mindblaster007 -> me] either way you are glitching to get through into a restricted area which is 3.3
[me -> mindblaster007] I'm convinced at this point you're just trolling
[mindblaster007 -> me] im not
[me -> mindblaster007] How in the world is riding a pig through a hole in the wall "glitch breaking blocks"?
[mindblaster007 -> me] they should be rewritten... im not the only one who's been saying this either
[mindblaster007 -> me] break- make or become inoperative. The glitch makes the purpose of a wall, to keep out raiders, inoperative.

Later when I told you that the rules needed to be read within the context of Minecraft and with a level of common sense that's what I was referring to:
[mindblaster007 -> me] I accepted it, I just recommended that it be worded better, and you asked me how and I explained, then you called me a troll.
[me -> mindblaster007] Because you're trying to argue that a pig can break blocks by trying to shoehorn in a definition that makes no sense
[me -> mindblaster007] The rules page isn't a legal document. It's to be read within the context of minecraft and with a level of common sense.

I'm not sure if you're doing it intentionally, but lying about what you said during our conversation and misrepresenting my words is not appreciated.
 

mindblaster007

Well-Known Member
I explained to you why we don't consider pig raiding to be a violation of rule 3.4. After that you tried to instead claim it violated 3.3 which is "Don't attempt to glitch break blocks or open locked doors/gates in protected areas in order to access chests etc":


Later when I told you that the rules needed to be read within the context of Minecraft and with a level of common sense that's what I was referring to:


I'm not sure if you're doing it intentionally, but lying about what you said during our conversation and misrepresenting my words is not appreciated.
[16:11:12] [Render thread/INFO]: [System] [CHAT] [Skuhoo -> me] Because you're trying to argue that a pig can break blocks by trying to shoehorn in a defintion that makes no sense
[16:12:01] [Render thread/INFO]: [System] [CHAT] [Skuhoo -> me] The rules page isn't a legal document. It's to be read within the context of minecraft and with a level of common sense.

I'm not trying to misrepresent anything, I think there was clearly some level of miscommunication. When I was referring to "glitch breaking blocks" I wasn't saying that it a literal sense, more so a metaphorical one. I was trying to represent how players going through a 1x1 on a pig is glitching through the blocks, henceforth breaking the intended mechanics for players not to be able to move through 1x1s. Hence the creation of this thread, to further the conversation on a community level. Regardless, I still stand by my suggestion that the rules be revised, rewritten, and/or reviewed. Another example of how the rules are unclear can be found starting here. Sure, the majority of the rules it is clear-cut, but some are too vague. And sure, they are vague, so they can be interpreted in a wider set of parameters, but to understand, we have to ask Guardians who themselves don't necessarily know the answer.
 
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obuth

Active Member
Guardian
Yes, I witnessed this twice over the past week right when towns feel. Today, when Con fell, I got there within 5 minutes approx. and actively observed obuth, and one other, killing people while also emptying shulkers' books, lore, and items linked to towns that existed ages ago on the ground to be respawned. After getting killed, I returned approx. 10 minutes later, they were gone and items were still all over the floor to be respawned.

As for the throwing away of resources, I didn't exactly witness it, but I was told that they had done it. I was also told by others that they too had been killed at RIs for their "set" and told they burned the resources so don't bother returning. I tried explaining both of these things, and more, to Skuhoo two or three days ago, and he accused me of trying to bend the rules and "trolling" because I stated that the rules are ancient and could use some revising. Henceforth my decision to write this thread which I planned on posting a Pt. 2 to.
Hey, I wanna clarify some things about what you said. It's true, I killed you, but that only happened because you attacked me first, while I was full invis I might add. I was only there to loot, not to kill people.
Also, as you may know, items despawn after 5 minutes when players are in the same chunk, so how could you find the same items still on the floor, 10 minutes later?
 

olpx

Active Member
I would also like to add on to what obuth said i was in a call with obuth when the town fell me and him both looting the town and mindblaster also accused me of burning historical books in the town which simply is not true and obuth can confirm that we were both just looting chests and whatever we could find and to touch up on the original thing mindblaster said he ATTACKED obuth and now is playing the victim card when he was the one who got killed he goes on the forums and complains which is just ridiculous mindblaster genuinely needs to be muted for the trolling and shenanigans he tries to pull off
 

mindblaster007

Well-Known Member
Also, as you may know, items despawn after 5 minutes when players are in the same chunk, so how could you find the same items still on the floor, 10 minutes later?
I assume someone picked em up and then dropped em thinking they were trash after you threw em on the ground despite empty chests being all around you. The first time they were on the ground, I picked them up. Then I accidentally hit you and you killed me despite me running from you. When I came back the second time, and was killed by olpx, the same set of items were on the ground. On the third, Vai_ was there and the book I picked up both times was still there. The crossbows from Noobville and Auru and handful of books I’m rather certain did despawn. I’m rather certain that if you go to fallen towns and check the despawn logs you will see this is a recurring theme with books, heads, and items with town names on them being considered “trash” and despawned. It’s also worth mentioning Iw as told by somebody in the voice call with them that they were there with the entire to kill, rather than recover and that despawned items is usually a given. The best I can do as “evidence” is the chat logs because I only started recording playing on Loka today considering how many times I’ve required evidence.
 
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mindblaster007

Well-Known Member
mindblaster u cause a lot of problems man
How is any of this a problem? Regardless of what happened, it doesn’t change the point of the thread. Despawning items on freshly fallen towns should be punishable. Especially when empty chests are right next to you the entire time.
 
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