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Implemented Scuffed RI's!

TheFreshLemon

TheFreshLemon

Well-Known Member
Slicer
Issues & Possible Fixes:​
When I was testing the new instanced Resource Isle's at Ascalon I immediately noticed the lack of diamond spawns compared to before. I get that around 10 stacks was unrealistic and allowed the rich to get even richer, but getting a stack or even less sometimes is ridiculous. The diamond veins are too small and spread out too far, if they were a bit bigger and closer like the redstone veins, which are lit on Ascalon it'd be better.

Another issue I have is that if you have a town (active) with land, you can't keep your town alive, make gear & weapons, and buy stuff like ancient Ingots because you get like 4 stacks of diamonds a day. Although a bonus is more groups will be mining and will cross paths, so more wilds fights,. I've already crossed paths with more people on my trips then I have ever before.

Last issue I have so far is that it resets every 20 hours. Currently I only get a 1-1.5 stacks average on Ascalon, so that's 4 stacks of diamonds a day (if it's the same on all ri's). I think 20 hours is a bit much and that if it reset sooner it would be better because you could go more often. At the very least if this isn't changed I think we should be notified when each Resource Isle resets, like our attacks do.

Other then that it's a pretty cool concept that just needs work, if anyone else has suggestions or problems feel free to put it below and thank you for your time <3.
 
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To be honest I feel the instanced Resource Islands are a bad idea in the first place. Loka has always claimed to make it easy for new players to get gear, with these changes it seems that RI's are just going to get camped by pvpers so make up the difference of their diamond income. However this is simply my opinion I still figured it was worth mentioning here. +1 to Lemon's ideas to fix it if the instanced RI's must stay.
 
TheFragileBlade said:
To be honest I feel the instanced Resource Islands are a bad idea in the first place. Loka has always claimed to make it easy for new players to get gear, with these changes it seems that RI's are just going to get camped by pvpers so make up the difference of their diamond income. However this is simply my opinion I still figured it was worth mentioning here. +1 to Lemon's ideas to fix it if the instanced RI's must stay.
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I can see where you were trying to go with this, but considering the upcoming advertisement wave, new players are going to be coming in very quickly and the amount of players online constantly is going to go up. Instanced RI's are to make it so instead of 8 new ore sets per day, you have 1 every 20 hours for each person. This encourages group mining and all in all, gets people out of their towns more, a main goal that I think is getting achieved. I do feel as though there need to be more ores overall, it seems like there's no iron at all anymore and very rare but HUGE gold veins. For me, it just seems to need balancing but has great potential as a feature.
 
We have had this discussion about the RI's both internally and with the LCR's. It appeared that from the discussion that was had most of the LCR's understood why the changes were made and were generally on board with them (with a few tweaks).

From our perspective, players have been spoilt with the old RI's and we knew taking this away/changing it was always going to provoke a reaction. Part of this may be down to the fact that we double nerfed them. First, in the old system they needed to be toned down a bunch (at least halving ores), then when you instance it you have to nerf the numbers considerably again or you will see huge inflation in shards.

To understand exactly what the issue people have is, there are some questions I want to ask. There are different ways to solve these sorts of things that don't require adding more diamonds. Which is something that probably won't happen, since we don't want individuals with crazy wealth that allows them to run an alliance solo.

- Are ores too difficult to find?
- Does it take too long per trip to the RI?
- Is the risk of PvP too great?
- Is the challenge of PvE mobs an issue?
- Are the non-diamond ores quantity/distribution the issue?

With regards to new players the instanced RI's will help them for a multitude of reasons. Not only will there always be ores there for them (in the past they would be cleaned out when they visited them), but we also have the ability to give them increased ore numbers to help them get started. If the increased activity at the RI's proves to be an issue, increasing the ore reset cooldown (along with the number of ores) will mean people make trips less often and therefore there is a smaller chance of new players running into others. We also have plans in the future to add other ore islands that have greater risks and rewards, which should help split the newer players from the experienced ones.

The suggestion to notify players in-game when their ores have reset on a certain RI is an interesting idea that we could get behind.

Something worth noting is that ores are now found at slightly different y levels to vanilla on the RI. Iron and Coal are found exclusively in the higher caves (roughly 40ish y and above) and Redstone and Diamonds exclusively in the lower caves/central chamber (roughly below 25 y). Lapis and Gold can generally be found in all the caves (up to 60ish y). Each RI has different cave layouts, so will take some learning to get optimal ore yields.
 
Magpieman said:
- Are ores too difficult to find?
- Does it take too long per trip to the RI?
- Is the risk of PvP too great?
- Is the challenge of PvE mobs an issue?
- Are the non-diamond ores quantity/distribution the issue?
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- Are ores too difficult to find? The ores are very hard to find yes, they usually appear as Redstone most.
- Does it take too long per trip to the RI? Usually, I went to the RI for an hour and came back with 8 stacks of ore.
- Is the risk of PvP too great? Why would I risk a god set for 23 ores?
- Is the challenge of PvE mobs an issue? The mobs need to be nerfed a bit too, 19 vexes chasing u is quite an issue, at least for my friend, Ducky.
- Are the non-diamond ores quantity/distribution the issue? Bro you get more redstone than diamond ore? Is this seriously a question?
 
Magpieman said:
- Are ores too difficult to find?
- Does it take too long per trip to the RI?
- Is the risk of PvP too great?
- Is the challenge of PvE mobs an issue?
- Are the non-diamond ores quantity/distribution the issue?

With regards to new players the instanced RI's will help them for a multitude of reasons. Not only will there always be ores there for them (in the past they would be cleaned out when they visited them), but we also have the ability to give them increased ore numbers to help them get started. If the increased activity at the RI's proves to be an issue, increasing the ore reset cooldown (along with the number of ores) will mean people make trips less often and therefore there is a smaller chance of new players running into others. We also have plans in the future to add other ore islands that have greater risks and rewards, which should help split the newer players from the experienced ones.
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- Are ores too difficult to find? Yes, they're hard to find and are spread out too far. When you do end up finding them you only get small 1-3 veins of ore.
- Does it take too long per trip to the RI? Of course it's going to take longer since it's different every time you go, you basically have to search every inch of the RI Caves because we can't remember where the ores are like before.
- Is the risk of PvP too great? Not really, but what Diego said.
- Is the challenge of PvE mobs an issue? Not at all, you can honestly just run by them or get the Rivinia neutral RI mobs buff..
- Are the non-diamond ores quantity/distribution the issue? Yes, too spread out and quantity is too low, if the veins were more like the redstone it'd make sense and I'd be happy.

As for new players how will having more groups of people going to RI to mine help them? If they die with their 23 ores they can't return for 20 hours and can't start their towns or make tools. Basically the idea of new people starting up easier is gone, the PvP and PvE points aren't a problem for groups or people set up with experience, but new people will struggle. If you increase the ore count for new players. Scumbags will just follow them to RI and kill them after they mine their increased ores.
 
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This post contains my general outlook on the current state of the RIs, and what should be done to fix them.

General Opinion
The new way of doing Ris is great, it should be specific to each player, however, the extreme nerf that was done to the RIs should not have been to the extent it was. The main idea of the update was great, but the huge nerf done was not needed to the extreme that the update brought it to. However, the "Instanced" part of the RIs is great, and will help and allow for people (especially newcomers) to get ores. The stone that appears after you mine each ore should be also be mineable, and should just regen faster. The dispersion of ores should also be fixed and brought to something similiar to what it was in the past. IE. Gold/Iron should be in the side caves, and the tougher to get ores, such as lapis, diamond, and redstone should all be in the main caverns. The buff to redstone is a welcome change, as redstone was previously something that was quite difficult to get.
Garama RI Summary
This RI I spent the most time at (about 30-45 minutes), out of the three. This could be attributed to why I found the RI the best out of the three. I got around 1.5 stacks of diamond ore, 1.5 stacks of gold ore, 2.5 stacks of redstone ore, 1.25 stacks of lapis ore, and no iron ore or coal ore. This was probably the best out of the three RIs, and changes should only apply to Gold, Coal, and Iron. These three ores need to be more common on the island. The sidecaves used to be completely full of gold, iron, and quite a bit of coal, and now, there is almost nothing. They need a major buff, and should be similiar (but worse), to the way the old caves were. Diamond, lapis, and redstone should be moved exclusively to the main caverns, and shouldn't receive any major changes. Their quantities were quite understandable, and at what they should be. The other ores (coal, iron, and gold) should also be present in the main caverns.
Ascalon RI Summary
The Ascalon RI was right behind Garama in terms of the ores I got. I spent around 30 minutes at this RI and got 30~ diamond ore, 1.5 stacks of redstone ore, 1 stack of lapis ore, 1 stack of gold ore, 20 coal ore, and around 20 iron ore. This RI needs buffing to almost all materials. Iron, coal, and gold should be more common (gold should be less than Garama). Lapis ore and redstone ore are at what you would expect, and diamond ore should receive a buff. Again, iron, gold, and coal should be more in the side caverns, whereas lapiz, redstone, and diamond in the main caverns. The main caverns should also feature iron, gold and coal, but to a lesser degree.
Kalros RI Summary
The Kalros RI is by far the absolute worst RI as of now. I got 20 diamond ore, 1.5 stacks of redstone ore, 1 stack of lapis ore ore, no iron ore, no coal ore, 40 gold ore, and 4 emerald ore. This RI is absolutely horrible, to say the least. There needs to be way more diamonds, more emeralds (possibly less diamonds, but more emeralds), A bit more lapis, more iron, more gold, and more coal. This RI is also in lack of a large side cavern system (unlike Garama or Ascalon), so, to be fair, there isn't much room for iron, gold, and coal there. That's why there should be some side caverns added that are icy, sprawling caverns that surround the entire main caverns. These would include lots of coal, a good amount of iron, and some gold. These resources would also be apart of the main cavern, alongside emeralds, diamonds, redstone, and lapis. Again, ores exclusive to the main cavern should not end up in the side caverns.

In summary, the new system seems nice on the surface, but there just aren't enough resources to justify going to the RI anymore. The RIs need a buff (not to the degree it used to be, but to a lesser extent). One of the larger changes that really made these not worth it was also the respawn time of 20 hours. If the RIs don't end up getting an ore buff, at the very least this timer should be 3-5 hours to promote going to the RI more than once per day. This would make PvP more common amongst people going, as you would have to go during more popular hours. Another idea would be to reward people who spend more time at the RI during a single trip, or making their next trip more profitable based on how long ago they went before that. This would promote people going back to the RI, spending more playtime on the server, and allow for the RIs to make sense with their current ore counts.
 
Thank you for taking the time to write this post foxy.

FoxyBearGames said:
The dispersion of ores should also be fixed and brought to something similiar to what it was in the past. IE. Gold/Iron should be in the side caves, and the tougher to get ores, such as lapis, diamond, and redstone should all be in the main caverns.
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I'm curious, why? We added diamonds to the side caves as well as main cavern to split players across a larger area. We also moved large quantities of gold and lapis to the higher caves. In the old system, there was little need to explore any of the caves beside the main cavern. This is not only boring and repetitive but further punishes newer players as it concentrates all player in the same area and thus creates more camping/PvP.

FoxyBearGames said:
In summary, the new system seems nice on the surface, but there just aren't enough resources to justify going to the RI anymore
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Your post appears to highlight the issue, that both the player base and server are in agreement about the acceptable quantities of ore (based on your experience on Garama RI), however, players need to adjust their mining strategy/technique in order to obtain this ore. All the RI's now have more or less the same quantity of each ore (if anything Kalros has slightly more). The ores each player receives is random and has some variance in it, so it's possible to have a good/bad day at an RI but this variance is at its most extreme a 50% difference in ore quantities (this is rare though). Coal and iron can only be found in the middle/upper caves and lapis/gold can be found in large quantities in the middle caves. There is well over 1000 coal on each RI and around 1000 iron ore. The issue, therefore, is clearly not a lack of these. Every RI has very different cave layouts, but their ore numbers are more or less the same.
 
Magpieman said:
Thank you for taking the time to write this post foxy.


I'm curious, why? We added diamonds to the side caves as well as main cavern to split players across a larger area. We also moved large quantities of gold and lapis to the higher caves. In the old system, there was little need to explore any of the caves beside the main cavern. This is not only boring and repetitive but further punishes newer players as it concentrates all player in the same area and thus creates more camping/PvP.
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It makes more sense for the more valueable ores to be in the more open areas, where people can more easily find you. At the Garama RI, the majority of the diamonds came from the side caves. You can very easily get large quantities of diamond ore from the side caverns whilst invis, and not run into any people. Most PvP experience I've had from the RIs is from the main caverns, or caves directly open to the main caverns. If you want for more PvP, the should probably be a larger quantity of rare ore within the main cavern. And, quite honestly, I spent most my time at the RI in the side caverns gathering iron, coal, and gold for various projects that require these three, and converting the gold into shards. The more valuable ores in the side caverns may not be an entirely bad thing, however, newer players should be given the chance to safely get diamonds, which is why they should probably stay (contrary to what I said above).

Magpieman said:
Your post appears to highlight the issue, that both the player base and server are in agreement about the acceptable quantities of ore (based on your experience on Garama RI), however, players need to adjust their mining strategy/technique in order to obtain this ore. All the RI's now have more or less the same quantity of each ore (if anything Kalros has slightly more). The ores each player receives is random and has some variance in it, so it's possible to have a good/bad day at an RI but this variance is at its most extreme a 50% difference in ore quantities (this is rare though). Coal and iron can only be found in the middle/upper caves and lapis/gold can be found in large quantities in the middle caves. There is well over 1000 coal on each RI and around 1000 iron ore. The issue, therefore, is clearly not a lack of these. Every RI has very different cave layouts, but their ore numbers are more or less the same.
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And, on the different mining techniques, yes, this should be something that needs to change up on the RIs, however, I'd rather not spend hours and hours looking for ores. I'd much rather spend 2-4 hours at the RI running around between the main caverns and side caverns looking for the ores, rather than looking in the nooks and crannies (which I did not look through when I was at the RIs most of the time). Even if there is a large quantity of those ores, its quite difficult to find them. This is something that needs to be fixed, because obviously, I couldn't find any coal or iron on most of the RIs. In general, they just need to be worked on a bit more in terms of the ease of finding more ores. It's just a bit difficult to balance these properly, and it's a good thing that it is now no longer possible to raid the entire RI all at once for the day.
 
FoxyBearGames said:
And, on the different mining techniques, yes, this should be something that needs to change up on the RIs, however, I'd rather not spend hours and hours looking for ores. I'd much rather spend 2-4 hours at the RI running around between the main caverns and side caverns looking for the ores, rather than looking in the nooks and crannies (which I did not look through when I was at the RIs most of the time). Even if there is a large quantity of those ores, its quite difficult to find them. This is something that needs to be fixed, because obviously, I couldn't find any coal or iron on most of the RIs. In general, they just need to be worked on a bit more in terms of the ease of finding more ores. It's just a bit difficult to balance these properly, and it's a good thing that it is now no longer possible to raid the entire RI all at once for the day.
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There is not a huge amount we can do about ores being in nooks and crannies, but something we could do is triple both the ores and the cooldown of the RI. So you could only go to each once every 3 days but would gain far more ores. This would cut down the time spent at RI's and in theory reduce PvP as people will visit the RI less often. The possible downside of this is it means if you do die, you will potentially lose more, but this could be rectified by using an ender chest while mining.
 
Magpieman said:
There is not a huge amount we can do about ores being in nooks and crannies, but something we could do is triple both the ores and the cooldown of the RI. So you could only go to each once every 3 days but would gain far more ores. This would cut down the time spent at RI's and in theory reduce PvP as people will visit the RI less often. The possible downside of this is it means if you do die, you will potentially lose more, but this could be rectified by using an ender chest while mining.
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the issue with this is that foxy is banned from placing enderchests now
 
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