No Plans to Implement A change to ban appeals

[DevvyVR]

Hey everyone, this idea is LobsterLarry's idea and I give him full credit. in light of recent ban appeals such as Splinian, Prodxgy, and etc. A problem with a lot of ban appeals is that most replies to ban appeals are completely biased because of the unofficial -1 and +1 system that players use. It's really simple. If you don't like a player you -1, if you like a player or if they are your friend you +1.

Another issue with the ban appeals is how 1 message can change the course of a ban appeal. For example in Prodxgy's unban appeal, a player who had not logged on in over 4 years wrote an entire essay on why they believe a player should not be unbanned. This caused the appeal to go into a full stage argument and just "nuked" the appeal.

Another thing is that some appeals go really off topic and just turn into a massive argument between a group of players. For an example, in Splinians ban appeal, a player who had posted a screenshot of Splinian saying some bad things got replied to by another screenshot of the player who was posting about Splinian saying bad things. This turned into an all right civil war between a friend group and was really off topic from an unban appeal.

In order to fix this, I think we should start disabling replies for unban appeals because it isn't the players job in order to decide whether a person should be unbanned or not, it should be the moderator's choice to determine whether someone is fit enough to be unbanned.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

 

[Mocc1]

 

[glory]

HARD -1 if a player has been banned from loka for a long time what other way will admins be able to determine if they are ready to return back to the community

 

[lilfros]

cmon bruh

 

[Lampp_]

make it public but let people not talk so if people have a actual issue with them they can dm elders with proof of them

 

[DevvyVR]

make it public but let people not talk so if people have a actual issue with them they can dm elders with proof of them

just disable comments!

 

[xCheaterFx]

Im totally agree with this, this always happen when someone is banned and is making his appeal in the forum, someone who hates him appears from the nothing (Someone who never played on the server) and with a simple comment destroys his appeal.
And im agree what devvy says, the appeal should only be valid for the staff and not validate the others opinions or comments without a clear context.

 

[Cryptite]

most replies to ban appeals are completely biased because of the unofficial -1 and +1 system that players use

The -1/+1 posts are of course biased, but are ignored just as easily as they are posted. Unless we see +1's from what appears to be a huge diversity of the community (players from multiple sides), they are overwhelmingly ignored. It's quite clear who's posting -1 because they simply don't like the player. The same goes for players who +1 ban appeals. I'd even argue supporting a ban appeal of a particularly bad character puts a target on your back, but that's just my 2c.

1 message can change the course of a ban appeal

Do you have evidence that proves this is the case, given you are not subject to how ban appeals are decided?

we should start disabling replies for unban appeals because it isn't the players job in order to decide whether a person should be unbanned or not

It is in fact the discourse that follows a ban appeal that very often shows the true character of the person appealing. Running the gauntlet of having to post a public appeal is extremely valuable and also very intentional. Other players digging up evidence of your actions elsewhere is, on occasion, valuable information to us as it often shows that "reformed player x" is, almost 95% of the time... not reformed. Many players have shot themselves in the foot by exploding at other players posting on their appeal which indicates quite clearly they're not ready to come back.

TL;DR if you can't handle the heat of a ban appeal, maybe that's why you're still banned.

 

[LobsterLarry]

Hey everyone, this idea is LobsterLarry's idea and I give him full credit. in light of recent ban appeals such as Splinian, Prodxgy, and etc. A problem with a lot of ban appeals is that most replies to ban appeals are completely biased because of the unofficial -1 and +1 system that players use. It's really simple. If you don't like a player you -1, if you like a player or if they are your friend you +1.

Another issue with the ban appeals is how 1 message can change the course of a ban appeal. For example in Prodxgy's unban appeal, a player who had not logged on in over 4 years wrote an entire essay on why they believe a player should not be unbanned. This caused the appeal to go into a full stage argument and just "nuked" the appeal.

Another thing is that some appeals go really off topic and just turn into a massive argument between a group of players. For an example, in Splinians ban appeal, a player who had posted a screenshot of Splinian saying some bad things got replied to by another screenshot of the player who was posting about Splinian saying bad things. This turned into an all right civil war between a friend group and was really off topic from an unban appeal.

In order to fix this, I think we should start disabling replies for unban appeals because it isn't the players job in order to decide whether a person should be unbanned or not, it should be the moderator's choice to determine whether someone is fit enough to be unbanned.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

you know i wasnt gonna post this because i was trying to have this done another way and so this kinda doesnt help but thank you for trying.

 

[LobsterLarry]

i also want to say that you are missing out on a huge part of what i said when i stated my idea to you.

 

[LobsterLarry]

i also want to say that you are missing out on a huge part of what i said when i stated my idea to you.

not only that but phrased differently and so I do not want to take claim to this idea.

 

[LobsterLarry]

I wanted to have an open discussion with LCR about a different way of handling this topic. The premise is the same but worded vastly different with a new system in place.

 

[DevvyVR]

Do you have evidence that proves this is the case, given you are not subject to how ban appeals are decided?

Splinian's Unban Appeal

Hello, people of loka I've come here today to appeal my ban on lokamc i was banned for fly hacking and several other punishments and they all just built up and made myself look worse in this situation that I've been in this past year, I have nothing to do outside of loka and the loka community...

forums.lokamc.com

 

[Broquu]

Splinian's Unban Appeal

Hello, people of loka I've come here today to appeal my ban on lokamc i was banned for fly hacking and several other punishments and they all just built up and made myself look worse in this situation that I've been in this past year, I have nothing to do outside of loka and the loka community...

forums.lokamc.com

How do you know that changed the course of an appeal cryptite legit told u most +1's are bias and that you dont know how Unban appeals are decided opon (noone will ever know)


But then again lets say that did change the course of how the appeal was going if he says that kind of stuff on other servers whats in the way of him doing that on loka the second he would be unbanned?

 

[LobsterLarry]

hey devvy i suggest not advocating for this idea for a bit. I'll rewrite the fixed idea and make it a community discussion on this topic elsewhere (tomorrow i will post the actual idea as well as the discussions i've had with other community leaders about it to show their points as well as let people talk about other ways we could handle the topic. I wanted the original idea to be a discussion and not just a suggestion and so I would like for you to withdraw the initial suggestion if you could, thanks!)

 

[Niveorum]

Why u think every loka rules about Ban/Town betrayel is false for u

 

[LobsterLarry]

this isnt the town betrayal thread

 

[Niveorum]

this isnt the town betrayal thread

He make one for Town betrayel tho

 

[LobsterLarry]

:shrug:

 

[FoxyBearGames]

To give some further insight to this based on a conversation me and Larry had, ban appeals should NOT be something we as admins try to hand hold. In our conversation last night Larry suggested making a system of evidence submission, however all I see in a system like that is a waste of time and many, many people calling bias based on what we do and don't classify as evidence.

Additionally, as Crypt mentioned briefly above how people act on appeals really is telling of their character. This allows us to really see who they are: if they're arguing in a civil war on their appeal, it's likely they're NOT going to get unbanned, unmuted, etc.

While I do agree it is annoying to see people argue on appeals, it is ultimately just annoying and nothing more (of course it could be more, but we would step in at that point).