Suggestion Ability to heal Conquest Golems with Iron Ingots

[ThePigGang]

It has been made clear that some conquest changes are to be implemented for next month and I hope this may be one of them

There has been a 1.5s cooldown added to healing golems as of this morning. We're not in favor of completely removing this feature.


This is already the case because buffed golems have more health, so take more ingots to heal. See below.


It doesn't take one ingot to full-heal a golem either. It takes roughly 8 or so to fully heal a Buffed Golem.



Overall Mag and I enjoy seeing new uses of Minecraft mechanics when they don't very clearly fly in the face of Loka's design. We prefer to see an evolving meta with new strategies developed, rather than a mindset where any new change or creative use of a mechanic is rejected because of being comfortable with a current strategy.

This is related to this post.

I make this post because I completely disagree, an "evolving meta" is one thing but this is no meta its just unplayable, it takes away from conquest as all the skill you may possess to get charges during a fight are rendered useless because you have a handful of people who will warp with stacks of iron solely to spam right click on a golem completely bypassing the 1.5 second cooldown. With these recent balak fights both sides were pulling such numbers that tps was low for everyfight and I wont go into detail but low tps has its effects on pvp as you all know (needing to delay your hits as well as just hits not registering). The experience I had that made me want to make this post was that when I went to go get a charge not only were 2 dedicated individuals spamming iron on the front golem they were also running in and out of the golems hitbox making them impossible to hit as the tps was awful. Im not making this post because im mad or anything I just honestly think its broken that stacks of iron + a handful of not good pvpers will humble a players ability to get charges and by no means do I believe myself to be some sort of "charge god". The only argument I see towards keeping this is that its a new meta and that its a vanilla feature that has a useful purpose which is rare on Loka. It shouldn't be possible in my opinion but evidently Loka needs a changing meta specified by Crypt which is completely understandable.

My suggestion is change the meta once again and or remove this one. You can maybe even increase the cooldown but doubt that will actually work when tps is below 10. Only way to nerf it I see is needing something more expensive then iron ingots. Maybe power cores or even AIS.

 

[ThePigGang]

To add on there is also this:

It is a cooldown on the player, not the Golem. So yes multiple people can heal golems if you have a big healing force.

 

[casperistrash]

+1 just stop this

 

[Bfloca]

+ 1 I agree this should not be a thing

 

[kiadmowi]

Completely agree that a few people carrying a stack of iron ingots to drown any attempt at getting charges in the midst of a fight is busted, especially for such a cheap resource.

But instead of completely removing the feature I feel it should be limited exclusively to ancient ingots as I'm pretty sure I've read was intended somewhere else on the forums, along with an actually impactful cooldown that doesn't allow a single player to outheal the enemy's damage in low tps fights. Something like 30 seconds to a minute would promote thoughtful, clutch healing instead of mindless spamming.

On top of this some passive healing on golems would probably feel nice so no team has to worry about that one golem that's on 10% hp when they make a push, something like regen 3 when a golem is out of combat would still take a while to heal them to full while at least giving a bit more peace of mind against charges being snuck.

 

[Lurnn]

it wasn't as bad and was somewhat doable before the lag, now with every fight pretty much lagging a bit it's not even possible to out hit the golem with 1 person healing, and that's a bit ridiculous lol

so yerm +1

 

[A_uj]

+1 golems being healable is just really annoying

 

[Marioistrash]

can we stop this garbage

 

[Sokou]

Nah keep it ye bit annoying in big fights but the cool down works so

 

[casperistrash]

Nah keep it ye bit annoying in big fights but the cool down works so

the cooldown doesnt work thats why this thread is a thing noob

 

[Samisol]

-1 i hate humanity

 

[Cryptite]

I could see the cooldown maybe changing from per player to being on the golem, perhaps raised a bit. We'll have a think on it.

It is worth noting that an awful lot of the time I see people go for charges, they're by themselves or maybe have one person near them. There are certainly ways to keep people away from golems and that is not something I often see (lack of kb defenders, etc). If there are two unskilled PvPers healing golems, why not make sure pressuring/killing them is a priority when going for charges?

A lot of things are pretty null and void when a fight is very laggy, and it's understandable that lag certainly advantages golem healing. We are due for some Conquest updates so Maggers and I will review.

 

[FoxyBearGames]

The cooldown is good for smaller fights but I can definitely see it becoming a problem in big ones because by the time you'd have killed a large amount of players on the other side, the next warp is starting. Could lengthen the cooldown depending on players or something like that I suppose.

 

[ThePigGang]

I could see the cooldown maybe changing from per player to being on the golem, perhaps raised a bit. We'll have a think on it.

It is worth noting that an awful lot of the time I see people go for charges, they're by themselves or maybe have one person near them. There are certainly ways to keep people away from golems and that is not something I often see (lack of kb defenders, etc). If there are two unskilled PvPers healing golems, why not make sure pressuring/killing them is a priority when going for charges?

A lot of things are pretty null and void when a fight is very laggy, and it's understandable that lag certainly advantages golem healing. We are due for some Conquest updates so Maggers and I will review.

I can't speak for all the 120+ people that warp for these fights but I think I can speak for the ones that get charges or defend against charges when I say that often times knockback just doesn't even register. I know for a fact that a couple of charges I got were due to me not being knocked off because kb just wasnt being registered.

Now for the WF side of things in VCs we specify who has the iron and the majority of the times we do get charges its when the opposition has been wiped in between warps or the people carrying iron have ran out or died. They usually die because they are being targeted.

I can agree that sure maybe have more people critting out the golem when you go to get a charge but I honestly thought thats what the case was but I guess being in spectator makes it alot easier to tell. The problem is when we do we have multiple people critting out the golem all it takes is 1 person with 1 stack of iron to delay the killing of the golem long enough for everyone needing to go repot or call it out in vc and drive them off the golem.

it wasn't as bad and was somewhat doable before the lag, now with every fight pretty much lagging a bit it's not even possible to out hit the golem with 1 person healing, and that's a bit ridiculous lol

so yerm +1

This is also factual. I want to think that not much can be done about the lag as Minecraft wasn't designed for having 120+ people have a fight in like 8 chunks but im not aware on how the servers resources are utilized so maybe someone else could add on to that.

 

[Sokou]

the cooldown doesnt work thats why this thread is a thing noob

I disagree!!!!!

 

[casperistrash]

I disagree!!!!!

this isnt a matter of opinion because it just doesnt work

 

[jakeman5]

I think it is a cool feature however due to the lag experienced with such large fights I must have to agree it is extremely difficult to kill golems if someone is healing them. However it is just as difficult to knock someone off of a lamp. If the server was smoother during those large fights I don't believe it would be much of an issue. The issue goes further than just healing the golems. I don't know if this would solve anything or just make the team that is trying to take charges at that period of time unstoppable.

 

[FoxyBearGames]

I think it is a cool feature however due to the lag experienced with such large fights I must have to agree it is extremely difficult to kill golems if someone is healing them. However it is just as difficult to knock someone off of a lamp. If the server was smoother during those large fights I don't believe it would be much of an issue. The issue goes further than just healing the golems. I don't know if this would solve anything or just make the team that is trying to take charges at that period of time unstoppable.

In LCR meetings we have talked about these huge fights in the past and the best solution we can come up with would be to add more objectives to the fights. Honestly conquest just wasn't designed to have 150 people in the first place. Golems just become a huge issue when you start to get so many people inside of one small area. When you've got 20-30 people all on top of one another right next to the golem, people spamming them with iron ingots isn't your main problem (and yes I am aware some people are saying it's borked, hopefully that will get fixed). Definitely adding more objectives to conquest is the way to go, and hopefully we can do this with relative haste.

 

[PartayArc]

In LCR meetings we have talked about these huge fights in the past and the best solution we can come up with would be to add more objectives to the fights. Honestly conquest just wasn't designed to have 150 people in the first place. Golems just become a huge issue when you start to get so many people inside of one small area. When you've got 20-30 people all on top of one another right next to the golem, people spamming them with iron ingots isn't your main problem (and yes I am aware some people are saying it's borked, hopefully that will get fixed). Definitely adding more objectives to conquest is the way to go, and hopefully we can do this with relative haste.

More objectives to large fights would be epic. Would the objectives start showing up when at least x amount of players are registered to warp? Also would the time limit with the new objectives in fights still be 1 hour?

 

[FoxyBearGames]

But instead of completely removing the feature I feel it should be limited exclusively to ancient ingots as I'm pretty sure I've read was intended somewhere else on the forums, along with an actually impactful cooldown that doesn't allow a single player to outheal the enemy's damage in low tps fights. Something like 30 seconds to a minute would promote thoughtful, clutch healing instead of mindless spamming.

On top of this some passive healing on golems would probably feel nice so no team has to worry about that one golem that's on 10% hp when they make a push, something like regen 3 when a golem is out of combat would still take a while to heal them to full while at least giving a bit more peace of mind against charges being snuck.

We did talk about using AIs for this and decided against it because it would change the base games feature, but we could revisit the idea.

More objectives to large fights would be epic. Would the objectives start showing up when at least x amount of players are registered to warp? Also would the time limit with the new objectives in fights still be 1 hour?

They'd likely show up when a fight has a specific amount of players in it. The time limit would still be the same I think. The point of the new objective is solely to move players into more than one location, not to prolonge the fight so I don't think it'd be an issue.

Edit: In all fairness though, the new objectives are likely a far way off but will be something that eventually comes.