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Ban appeal #2
- Thread starter ccjacky
- Start date
- Status
Banks
Active Member
Deeuss
Active Member
Why did you leak our secret babe
Hyperspeed
Member
To begin: age is a topic that can have very serious, real world consequences, as demonstrated in this situation. Even unintentionally lying about age can be extremely harmful. However, intentionally manipulating your age in order to illicit sexual favors is nothing short of grooming. Nothing can excuse this behavior. It can and has endangered players of Loka - again, demonstrated exactly in this situation.
Azules assumes much more fault than CCJacky here, for the specific action of lying about her age. Meanwhile, CCJacky has done far less, if anything at all... From her perspective, at the time, she was consenting to a relationship that was 17 to 15 (We shall treat it as such, with no difference, because this is the information that was given to her at the time, and this is her ban appeal, concerning her actions at that time only. Anyone trying to say otherwise, with this '14 and X' bs is just trying to skew the argument in their favor.)
The prosecutors have named, as I have seen, several supposed faults of CCJacky's:
1. "17 and 15 is fundamentally wrong"
2. "Older people carry more maturity due to their inherent seniority, so they are responsible for (more?) (all?) actions."
However:
(1) This is a normal relationship. I don't know what you people are asking for - are you suggesting every relationship must have at most a 1 year age gap? That is already insanely restrictive - only 13% of [heterosexual, US] couples have a 1 year age gap (ABC News).
Some people are calling this 2 year age gap pedophilia... do you understand what you are saying? Pedophilia is a serious accusation; one that destroys lives, carries jail time, and creates social outcasts - rightfully so. In our world, it is probably the worst crime you could commit, short of murder. By throwing around this disgusting label so freely, you are not only harming individuals who do not deserve it by labeling them with this disgusting term, but also diminishing the value of the term - thereby enabling more pedophilia. Using this label so freely has caused harassment from individuals who do not understand the situation; people who hear of a "pedophile" and want to enact vigilante justice.
(2) Some people also justify this "pedophilia" claim by saying CCJacky is "almost an adult". Allow me to remind you that Loka has a diverse background, with many different cultures, and in each one of them, "adulthood" is considered something different. If it was legal in the area it occured in, where is the problem? You can't judge something literally potentially on the other side of the world using a moral basis from a completely different cultural background. To the people using a black and white perspective of "18 = adult (why?), and adult = fully responsible for all actions", where are you getting this from? When you turn 18, do you suddenly become fully aware of all your actions, completely responsible, and make no mistakes? The brain doesn't just stop developing at 18. CCJacky was not even 18 (~2 months away at the time, iirc). This is a black and white perspective being used purely to villainize people. Age - which is a number - does not fully convey maturity. Pedophilia is an issue only because of gaps in maturity - sick individuals try to exploit these gaps. (NOTE, THIS IS NOT IN ANY WAY SAYING "AGE IS 'JUST' A NUMBER", I AM ONLY SAYING IT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF THE FULL, UNDERLYING MATURITY GAP)
CCJacky, from what I have seen, did not try to exploit anything, or manipulate anyone. In fact, she was manipulated and at first unwilling, to do these things. She is the victim, not Azules (hey, wait a minute.., the consensus seems to be the victim shouldn't be banned). At most, she made a mistake. Yet, what mistake did she make, even? Being in a consensual relationship with a normal age gap? Trusting people to not lie about their age, which itself is already such a sensitive topic that lying about it is unforseeable? Why would you not trust that someone is what age they say they are? And, to the people saying the mistake is edating,people can lie about their age in real life, too. Edating is just as consensual and just as risky as irl dating, and in this appeal, they make fundamentally no difference - this is CCJacky's appeal, and should only concern her actions do I even need to say anything? Is edating suddenly bannable now? Also, is the older person in a relationship supposed to take on all of the responsibility now? This seems to stem itself from the "power dynamic" idea that some of you are claiming is the source of the mistake. Shouldn't you be trying to avoid this power dynamic mentality?
Also, sidenote: CCJacky claims she is immature mentally. People have stated this is "not an excuse", but it at the very least makes the situation more favorable. If she is more immature (which, you guys must agree with, since you all seem to be saying something along these lines already), then the maturity gap is smaller. Thus, the already normal 2 year gap is even more justifiable than it already was - at least in CCJacky's eyes. (im only explaining this because it seems some of you didnt get it, idk, i havent even thought about my actual sentiment on this point yet, just saying this for the sake of informed argument. will say though, that it is also not the mistake here..)
Azules assumes much more fault than CCJacky here, for the specific action of lying about her age. Meanwhile, CCJacky has done far less, if anything at all... From her perspective, at the time, she was consenting to a relationship that was 17 to 15 (We shall treat it as such, with no difference, because this is the information that was given to her at the time, and this is her ban appeal, concerning her actions at that time only. Anyone trying to say otherwise, with this '14 and X' bs is just trying to skew the argument in their favor.)
The prosecutors have named, as I have seen, several supposed faults of CCJacky's:
1. "17 and 15 is fundamentally wrong"
2. "Older people carry more maturity due to their inherent seniority, so they are responsible for (more?) (all?) actions."
However:
(1) This is a normal relationship. I don't know what you people are asking for - are you suggesting every relationship must have at most a 1 year age gap? That is already insanely restrictive - only 13% of [heterosexual, US] couples have a 1 year age gap (ABC News).
Some people are calling this 2 year age gap pedophilia... do you understand what you are saying? Pedophilia is a serious accusation; one that destroys lives, carries jail time, and creates social outcasts - rightfully so. In our world, it is probably the worst crime you could commit, short of murder. By throwing around this disgusting label so freely, you are not only harming individuals who do not deserve it by labeling them with this disgusting term, but also diminishing the value of the term - thereby enabling more pedophilia. Using this label so freely has caused harassment from individuals who do not understand the situation; people who hear of a "pedophile" and want to enact vigilante justice.
(2) Some people also justify this "pedophilia" claim by saying CCJacky is "almost an adult". Allow me to remind you that Loka has a diverse background, with many different cultures, and in each one of them, "adulthood" is considered something different. If it was legal in the area it occured in, where is the problem? You can't judge something literally potentially on the other side of the world using a moral basis from a completely different cultural background. To the people using a black and white perspective of "18 = adult (why?), and adult = fully responsible for all actions", where are you getting this from? When you turn 18, do you suddenly become fully aware of all your actions, completely responsible, and make no mistakes? The brain doesn't just stop developing at 18. CCJacky was not even 18 (~2 months away at the time, iirc). This is a black and white perspective being used purely to villainize people. Age - which is a number - does not fully convey maturity. Pedophilia is an issue only because of gaps in maturity - sick individuals try to exploit these gaps. (NOTE, THIS IS NOT IN ANY WAY SAYING "AGE IS 'JUST' A NUMBER", I AM ONLY SAYING IT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF THE FULL, UNDERLYING MATURITY GAP)
CCJacky, from what I have seen, did not try to exploit anything, or manipulate anyone. In fact, she was manipulated and at first unwilling, to do these things. She is the victim, not Azules (hey, wait a minute.., the consensus seems to be the victim shouldn't be banned). At most, she made a mistake. Yet, what mistake did she make, even? Being in a consensual relationship with a normal age gap? Trusting people to not lie about their age, which itself is already such a sensitive topic that lying about it is unforseeable? Why would you not trust that someone is what age they say they are? And, to the people saying the mistake is edating,
Also, sidenote: CCJacky claims she is immature mentally. People have stated this is "not an excuse", but it at the very least makes the situation more favorable. If she is more immature (which, you guys must agree with, since you all seem to be saying something along these lines already), then the maturity gap is smaller. Thus, the already normal 2 year gap is even more justifiable than it already was - at least in CCJacky's eyes. (im only explaining this because it seems some of you didnt get it, idk, i havent even thought about my actual sentiment on this point yet, just saying this for the sake of informed argument. will say though, that it is also not the mistake here..)
Banks
Active Member
i aint readin allat
Kippehz
Well-Known Member
Yo wtf they been noncey for a while ?
prozection
Member
-1 disgusting 
12 days to be 18 btw.
12 days to be 18 btw.Well its not a 2 year age gap its a 3 almost a 4 year age gap. They all mention that azules was known as a chronic liar. Why do they not go out of their way to fact check azules on this? Why is CCJacky trusting a "chronic liar" about their age, especially when you are so close to being a legal adult. A 3 year age gap is fine, BUT NOT WITH TEENAGERS. A 23 and 20 year old is fine because THEY ARE BOTH CONSENTING LEGAL ADULTS. An almost legal 17 year old with a 14 year old is NOT ok, and people defending this behavior is disgusting. They should both be banned however because lying about your age is not OK especially in a relationship.
You are purposefully being obtuse, and I am really not sure why. It would not make sense to compare a relationship between a 45 year old and a 43 year old to one between a 15 year old and an 18 year old. The age gap simply means more during this age range and you know that.
Just an awful point IMO. Legality does not define morality. Severely inappropriate age gaps are legal in a number of undeveloped nations and those relationships being legal does not magically remove maturity differences and the potential for the younger party to be exploited.
"At first unwilling" Dawg. We have seen the messages. They chose to go through with it. Trying to genuinely argue this person is the victim and the 14 (they thought she was 15!) year old they had e sex with is the master manipulator is just unbelievably incoherent. Also incredibly dishonest to say "the consensus seems to be the victim should not be banned" and the supposed consensus is one signular person saying it, when most people under this post with a stated opinion have said they want both the players banned. Yes it is not a black and white situation, but trying to spin this situation into jacky being the victim is just not reasonable. Tell your friend to get a grip and grow up. Encourage them to take responsibility instead of this bullshit.
No. The overwhelmingly popular consensus is that both of these players should be banned and removed from the community. Jacky will naturally bear more responsibility because azules is 14 and they are about to turn 18, but they both have their share of the blame.
Really weird to even try making this point. Not only is it not an excuse, it actually makes the situation alot less favorable. This person really is just trying to deflect all of the blame off of themselves and a number of individuals under this post are trying to assist them in doing this. The nature of their first appeal was blatantly dishonest, and pathetic at best or manipulative at worst (pretending they were banned for ranked toxicity when what they were banned for was common knowledge, trying to garner sympathy with sad statements in the original post and under it, etc. and just the whole appealing days after you are banned).
I get that they are your friend, but I think attempting to normalize these types of interactions between younger players in our community will have disastrous consequences. From reading their appeals and their responses, as well as their friends under this post defending them, I think it would not be unreasonable to say Jacky has not shown willingness to take responsibility, which is the number one thing you should be doing when you are trying to appeal.
You cannot seriously believe this person should be let back on the server and into the community, when the best thing for everyone (including Jacky, by the way) is to ban both of them. Giving Jacky every single benefit of the doubt, they are an unstable person that needs to get their life together and letting go of this server is step 1. The same goes for Azules.
How do you still have a forums accountRegardless of how wrong 17 and 14 and or 17 and 15 what ccjacky thought it was (which is still weird lets be real), when it comes to the freak practice edating and 'e-sex' there is the simple fact that discord, online things and especially minecraft due to the fact it is a kids game and therefore has children playing it and who are part of the community it is never a good idea to engage in any kind of activity like this because you do not know how old the people you are talking to are, and they also do not know how old the person they are talking to are. IT IS THE INTERNET people lie about practically anything including how old they are and you should not risk possibly endangering childrens wellbeing because you are horny and someone on the internet 'told' you their age which you thought was ok. If you are 17 nearly 18 and you didnt even think about this or chose to ignore it then you seriously need to do some thinking about yourself as potentially exposing people who could quite possibly be much younger than what they say ONLINE (15 is still wild bud) to the level of stuff you said is completely vile and inexcusable.
And all the people who are defending CCjacky (im looking at you cillia and alcaili) should really rethink the whole situation and whose side you are on, internet safety is a real and large problem within all online communities and people who are participating in this sort of behaviour and defending them deserve no place.
Azules should be banned for their own wellbeing and Ccjacky and anyone doing the kind of thing they did should be banned forever.
Thanks
Lokas number 1 hacker and alter
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