Conquest 3 first ideas

[Ajaxan]

This is a thread for posting idea, not shutting them down. Share your ideas here but don't bash on anyone else's. If you have something to add to someone's idea go for it! I think its time we encouraged a little less tearing apart and a bit more working together. Keeping this in mind, read on!

Conquest 3! Don't worry, this change wont be nearly as big as the scale of Conquest 2. Conquest 3 does plan to change the system however! Right now, combat is very much standardized and single focused. Everyone wears the exact same armor, wielding the exact same weapons, using the exact same tactics. In the words of Crypt "because everybody running around with a sword and steak is stupid."

So Conquest 3, although very early in development will attempt to address this problem by introducing something new to combat. What that something is however, is yet to be decided. And that's where we come in. What changes to Conquest can be made for the better? Crypt has said that changes do not have to be vanilla so really think about this! Good luck in coming up with ideas, my personal request is to not go to crazy with ideas but if you think an ocelot cannon is what pvp needs, tell us why.

 

[gabrosen]

Doesn't have to be vanilla eh?

First off lets start with talents. Talents are something people have been wanting for a while, though others believe they can be very unbalanced. But I believe talents could be a unique and to be honest, quite a fun Idea. This would work almost exactly how you pick talents for mini-games. You would have a talent tree and as you level up those skills you would be able to use more talents. I know it might be weird to think I've played on other servers, but I have (Mostly RP servers) But Loka is my main. . On some RP servers, I've seen this Idea implemented and I thought it was really fun!

Another Idea.

More Weapons!
Imagine the amount of lore and the amount of diversity in peoples style in pvp if we added more weapons? Spears, Sickle, Throwing axes, Battle torches, Throwing knives... The list goes on.

A third Idea!

Magic.
Magic has been a part of Loka's lore for a while and well... We should add more! . Ice magic, fire, dark, light. I'm sure we could come up with something

And a fourth!

Siege weapons!
This was a great Idea I though up. We could create some sort of way to use catapults, or Ballistas with sieges. That would be quite amazing.

I'll come up with more base Ideas later.

 

[Ajaxan]

Alrighty, thanks for the ideas of those that have posted so far!

I myself have my own views on my ideas and I'm curious to see what y'all think. After I've made my pitch I'll respond to a few other ideas I've heard! Take note that all my ideas aim at being highly realistic and intuitive so that they make sense from a logical stand point and are easy to pick up. Making things to complicated or have too big a learning curve is a major shutoff to new players looking to get into pvp.

Right now, everyone in Minecraft seems to think that the key to combat lies in the weapon. Although sure, weapons should vary more than they currently do, I believe one of the biggest missed opportunities for Minecraft pvp is armor. Right now there is only one choice for armor and it is very time consuming to obtain and all but cancels out the ability for new comers to participate in pvp. What if that were to change though? Well here is my idea:

1. Armor Weight. Armor is heavy. For those of you that live on earth, its hard to deny that heavy objects are, in fact, heavy. In Minecraft, the idea of weight is all but tossed into the trash. Now, for many reasons this is a good thing. I really don't want to cut my mining trip short just because I stumbled upon a small gold vein. (Gold is really heavy) That said, weight presents a unique solution that is much more natural than enchants or abilities. By slowing players down that wear heavy armor you begin to open up the option for players to wear lighter armor, using the agility gained as an advantage. Not only that, wearing armor has more choice now, if you intend to be chasing down players diamond armor may be too restrictive so you will opt for iron instead. It may slow you down but not as much as diamond. Striking a balance between speed and protection. Or perhaps you will attempt to bring a horse to battle to help make up for your lack of speed!
2. Armor Buffs. This idea revolves around buffing the use of weapons and abilities that would be logically associated with said armor while possibly offering de-buffs to player using uncharacteristic weapons. What does this mean? I'll attempt to explain. If you are wearing leather armor, you will have a larger range of movement, be more nimble and flexible. So activities like drawing a bow all the way to full draw are much easier. On the flip side, if you are clad in heavy protective armor your ability to pull back that same bow would likely be limited. Using this train of logic, players wearing leather receive an increase to ranged damage while diamond clad players would receive a decrease in range damage. Another option would be to literally decrease the range of players with different armor. Allowing archers to fire safely while outside the range of a diamond clad warrior. So now, a diamond wielding soldier will almost always need to close the distance with an archer instead of attempting to fire back. Making things like E-pearls much more useful! Diamond armor isn't all bad though, you may be slow but you are tanky and take less knockback making it harder for enemies to simply push you away! Another idea in this are is to make things like Gold armor have buffs to potions (perhaps immunity to negative effects and double positive effects?) and de-buffs to diamond armor (increased effectiveness of negative potions) that would allow for an entirely new area of pvp previously unavailable.
3. Horses. The most criminally underused part of pvp I've ever seen. Shame on you Mojang. Horses provide for a hole new layer of depth in pvp but in their current state they offer almost no value because they die very quickly and must be replaced. Two changes must be made to horses that will make them viable. These changes are to make them much harder to kill. In a world where a sword swing to the face doesn't kill a human why should it do so to massive beasts like horses? First, cut all damage done to them by a huge amount especially if they are wearing armor. A diamond clad horse should be twice as hard to kill than a player in the same stuff. Next, make them respawn! This is of course more complicated but perhaps a simple stables at spawn where players may reclaim their fallen conquest horses is what it takes. If a player dies while on a horse in Conquest send it to the stables at spawn. No need to specify before battles or anything, if you want your horse back, all you need to do is be on it in battle.

And that sums up all my ideas everyone. They attempt to take realistic ideas and use them to make logical leaps for combat that make sense. Armor is heavy, Armor is restrictive, Horses are not fragile flowers. My hope is to see someone in golden armor on a horse flinging potions across the battle field as some sort of alchemist targeting diamond clad knights while using his speed to avoid them. I want to see archers in tree's in prot 4 unb 3 leather avoiding fights at all costs while slinging arrows at knights and enemy archers. And finally I want to see tanky diamond clad warriors ignoring all enemies and going straight for lamps with reduced knockback damage. I know people believe in not forcing people into kits and although this system does give preferences to a class like system it allows you to do whatever you want. Perhaps you want a balance of archery ability but want some extra defense. Throw on a diamond helmet and boosts. Sure your range attacks wont be as powerful but they'll be better. The key to good fighting mechanics is options. Minecraft doesn't naturally give us many options so we must make our own.

 

[turtlemaster01]

One thing i have noticed is a complete lack of shield based combate because they break too quickly or take up a food slot. What if during combat we made the off hand just a bow and shield slot. That way we dont get people just swing swords and holding steaks.

Another thing I would like to see would be a new modual known as an archer tower which one a T gen would provide a place for archers to sit and fire while being out of harms way. When its lamp is disabled the tower will "crumble" and the arxhers will be placed on thr battlefield in harms way. Only archers (whatever shall be classified as an archer) can br up there and only 4 maybe 5 can be in 1 tower at a time. Thats my idea. If u have anything to add or modify feel free to do so!

 

[Skuhoo]

One thing i have noticed is a complete lack of shield based combate because they break too quickly or take up a food slot. What if during combat we made the off hand just a bow and shield slot. That way we dont get people just swing swords and holding steaks

You can put unbreaking on shields and they're getting a buff in 1.11.

 

[Defgnww]

There's over 50 custom enchants planned for swords, axes, bows, hoes, elytra, shields, banners and a few other tools to make a more unique conquest experience. I mentioned this a few times and you kept telling me to come up with an idea and to stop shutting you down..

When was this announced? Sounds like a cool idea.
If it's already planned and will be implemented, is it really a suggestion though? Sounds like a feature that's going in the next conquest update, so I don't see why it would belong on this post.

 

[Xovious]

Doesn't have to be vanilla eh?

More Weapons!
Imagine the amount of lore and the amount of diversity in peoples style in pvp if we added more weapons? Spears, Sickle, Throwing axes, Battle torches, Throwing knives... The list goes on.

Literally what I was thinking, just not sure how Crypt would implement that in

"Magic.
Magic has been a part of Loka's lore for a while and well... We should add more! . Ice magic, fire, dark, light. I'm sure we could come up with something"

Magic would be interesting... I like the idea

 

[Skuhoo]

When was this announced? Sounds like a cool idea.
If it's already planned and will be implemented, is it really a suggestion though? Sounds like a feature that's going in the next conquest update, so I don't see why it would belong on this post.

It's been talked about behind-the-scenes for awhile but hasn't been officially announced because it's still in the planning stage. The reason why Kallious posted about it is because most people don't know about this work Hexwolf has been doing. So this thread is somewhat useless since there's already a plan for creating interesting, dynamic pvp.

The current plan adds the ability for players to create an enchant build that works for them (you can't just put every enchant you want on) and also makes weapons like the axe and hoe viable.

 

[Ajaxan]

Back to ideas. Gab you mentioned magic. If we somehow implemented it how would it work? Would it be like abilities in Vota or something a bit different like a special stick enchantment that allows it to shoot fireballs?

 

[turtlemaster01]

You can put unbreaking on shields and they're getting a buff in 1.11.

Well even with Unbreaking people still don't use them due to the fact that the current use for the shield slot is more of a steak cup holder and we are not yet in update 1.11 so until then we should really try to improve on what we got. If we somehow gave them a better more viable use (Which unfortunately I am not very creative with shield related buffs and what not) then people would use them more and it would make combat a little more interesting.

 

[kallious]

Turtle, I hope you'll be happy to know that there is 14 total ideas for shield enchantments currently, so if some of those are implemented shields would see more uses.

 

[Skuhoo]

we are not yet in update 1.11 so until then we should really try to improve on what we got

Why? Mojang has shifted to small, frequent updates. 1.11 snapshots have been coming out for awhile now, so it won't be long before it is out. Don't you think it's a bit silly to not consider the balance changes in 1.11 when C3 would almost certainly not occur until 1.11?

 

[Jedoi]

I love the idea of magic. A lot of awesome lore could come out of that.

 

[Ajaxan]

I love the idea of magic. A lot of awesome lore could come out of that.

although gab was rather vague in how magic could be implemented I've been getting so many fun ideas about how you could implement some cool spells to mix things up. Crypt said he wanted pvp to look for exciting, magic will certainly do that, haha. Imagine you have special enchantments you can only get on a book that can then we applied to a stick/blazerod/etc that then turns it into a wand! Shoot fireballs, create force fields, and who knows what else. Obviously that could get way overpowered very quickly if not balanced properly though.

 

[Skuhoo]

Player retention is a huge issue that's been a focus point for a lot of recent updates, which is why I'm of the belief that core vanilla pvp mechanics should never change. Loka-specific features are welcome to change the dynamic, but a new player walking off the docks shouldn't be overwhelmed with combat changes that turn Minecraft into a different game. The changes shouldn't alter what new players already know about Minecraft, but instead build upon it with new mid to late-game content. Things like magic should be restricted to more passive effects than fireball explosions, like group healing or other similar effects. Yeah, it might not be as exciting as epic lightning blasts and whatnot, but it'd be a lot easier to bring new players into the mechanic.

 

[Jedoi]

Things like magic are cool and exciting. I've briefly played on servers were magic was a thing, most of them had double if not triple the population of Loka, while being much younger and less cool. I asked what in the coolest thing about this server was, (on like 3 servers) and the majority said the magic spells and custom combat. I don't know how long players stayed, though. I figure if we had magic on Loka, something cool like that would bring them in, let them experiance the server, and all the other cool things like the custom world, Conquest, towns, ect, would make them stay.

Also

What are you talking about? Callix Calixx hasn't...

That is unnecessary. This is a thread for ideas, not making fun of each other.

 

[gabrosen]

Back to ideas. Gab you mentioned magic. If we somehow implemented it how would it work? Would it be like abilities in Vota or something a bit different like a special stick enchantment that allows it to shoot fireballs?

Alright, magic. Well I was thinking some sort of magic plugin, almost like talents... But we start with books. Ancient runic books of power, that grant you magical abilities. I haven't thought too far into the Idea, but I'm sure we could elaborate on some sort of way for this idea to work.

 

[Jedoi]

I can totally see us RPly finding ancients magic books in Caeldris...

 

[Ajaxan]

Player retention is a huge issue that's been a focus point for a lot of recent updates, which is why I'm of the belief that core vanilla pvp mechanics should never change. Loka-specific features are welcome to change the dynamic, but a new player walking off the docks shouldn't be overwhelmed with combat changes that turn Minecraft into a different game. The changes shouldn't alter what new players already know about Minecraft, but instead build upon it with new mid to late-game content. Things like magic should be restricted to more passive effects than fireball explosions, like group healing or other similar effects. Yeah, it might not be as exciting as epic lightning blasts and whatnot, but it'd be a lot easier to bring new players into the mechanic.

I honestly agree with this idea Sku. And I know you believe the enchantments are the way to fix it. So can you please share them with us? I want to see exactly how you believe these will make pvp better.

As many of you probably agree, Minecraft pvp is honestly pretty bad. There is one setup that wins and nothing else compares. It limits creativity and lacks variety. In my mind, its a disservice to all of us to stick to a completely vanilla combat system if we really want to make combat more varied and fun. That said, I think the best ideas will be the best are the ones that feel more natural or are very easy to understand and pick up.

I believe enchantments certainly fit into that design space but I don't feel it is enough. I won't make any claims until someone lists out the enchantments but I'm skeptical its the end all be all.

 

[Cryptite]

I suppose the more people that see these the more ideas/discussion that can be had about them. Remember these are just tossed out by Hexwolf and I think he's discussed many of these with Magpie, so they can be considered "lightly reviewed". I haven't really looked into them as much:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tzBevniKV3lOwXjgxSjiN_DCKS-PSq016zH9k5_zyvo/edit?usp=sharing