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Conquest Towers

Cryptite

Cryptite

Elder
Staff member
Elder
We're looking to add one or two more types of Towers that you can add to your TGens. We have a couple ideas of our own, namely a Slow debuff tower and possible a tower that could block using ender pearls.

But you guys do the Conquests, what would you like to see as a possible new Tower(s)?
 
What about a levitation tower? Calling on the new levitation effect from 1.9? It targets a hostile player and levitates them into the air so they will take fall damage.
 
I don't see a need at this point. We lost several attacks on Hilo, and it was so difficult. It seems that with even numbers attacking and defending, the defenders have a big advantage with the defensive towers.

I don't like the ender pearl negation, and I don't see why it is necessary or desirable. Everyone has access to ender pearls, if they want to make the effort. It's a key part of pvp, and I have been trying to get better at it (not so good at it so far). Also, I busted my arse collecting ender pearls in this world. If they get devalued, blech.
 
Wolfegger said:
I don't see a need at this point. We lost several attacks on Hilo, and it was so difficult. It seems that with even numbers attacking and defending, the defenders have a big advantage with the defensive towers.

I don't like the ender pearl negation, and I don't see why it is necessary or desirable. Everyone has access to ender pearls, if they want to make the effort. It's a key part of pvp, and I have been trying to get better at it (not so good at it so far). Also, I busted my arse collecting ender pearls in this world. If they get devalued, blech.
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There will still be a max of 4 towers per T gen still. So in theory it shouldn't give much more of an advantage to the defenders. We want there to be more choice and tactics involved when picking how to protect your territory.
 
Yeah I agree with wolf, those towers are strong enough as they stand. Weakness 3 is not fair on its own, let alone slowness and ender pearl blocking. The defenders could basically use A BOW IN POT PVP if all these debuffs go through. Adding too many towers will ruin it, just leave it the way it is or change the weakness to 2 at most.
 
What about offensive towers? I honestly think the limit on towers should be higher for defenders (like 8 or something). The only way to combat this would be to use offensive towers. The offensive towers would be stuff like inhibitor shield generator tower (must kill the tower before the inhibitor) and tnt towers (same as defensive tnt towers).

I bring it up because T-gen battles are awesome. Even when I lose I have a blast and so I'm looking to increase that epic factor the battles can have by making them even crazier. So instead of cap the ability of defenders, raise the capabilities of both of them. In doing this I'd recommend towers double in price (or some similar price increase) for each tower in the territory. With the new update Crypt just mentioned though, this might already be a thing.

What do you guys think?
 
I personally a super excited for 1.9! Can't wait to see everyone tripping over their swords.
 
X_Cavator said:
Please address the other things I said :p.
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I personally feel the current tower balance is pretty great. It takes a sizable force to take out a fully-towered TGen currently and with the latest updates to the cost of towers/tgens, this better balances them being as strong as they are with those who would want to control both a lot of territory and have towers on them all. Is Weakness III too much? Maybe; we'll need to look into it more.

I still think a lot of people have it in their head that they should be able to solo or duo tgen fights with ease and win the day. However, Conquest isn't designed that way and while it is possible to solo basic tgens, towers were created for the very purpose of making them both harder and longer fights. After some further discussion, the Pearl Tower doesn't seem likely as, even though pearl users got really uppity about even the thought of not being able to pearl, it doesn't seem overall like a very useful tower.

As for some of the other ideas out there, i can't see us allowing more than 4 towers as even the 4 can be a tight fit at times.

I think it's evident that Conquest has brought potion-pvp to Loka where it was truly nonexistent before. I feel this was a positive trend as it broadened the horizons about minecraft pvp to many of us Lokans. I think Pot PvP is neat, however, I personally think it's horribly balanced, too glitchy, and too abusable with macros/cps abuses. That said, that's an entirely different conversation. It's what we've got, so we're running with it.

What seems to ruin the entire system for us is, because of the nature of Minecraft Potion PvP, a single talented player can in certain circumstances overcome a significantly disproportionate force of players (by his or herself) and win fights. Our system of Conquest is designed to be all about mustering forces, forming alliances, excercizing diplomacy, and using strategy to win. When one player has the ability to define the entire landscape of fights simply by logging on, that breaks the system.

This concept of adding new towers is part of a greater trend of balance forthe system. Some, like Master, would like an entirely redesigned system of classes (basically talents like for BGs) that could be used in our world pvp. This would add depth to the system but would remove the pot pvp from the server in favor of a more RPG type PvP style. My personal preference is to continue to trend towards balance of the current system with vanilla pvp and find a happy medium where you can be successful in a variety of ways. I would consider Hilo's success in the last month proof that we've grown from our original system to one where strategy can win over just pot pvp skills.

The thing about balance is that the players who have the most power lose some of that power. Nobody likes getting nerfed and I can understand that, but it's called balance for a reason. I think Conquest will continue to trend into a system where success can be possible through different methods. I think it will trend away from single players being able to pull off incredible victories (in battles by themselves) and more towards strategies, metagame, and sizes of force. It will trend away from being able to start from 0 and win capital in a few short days.

I love balancing this system and I think it continues to get better with each update. Because our Conquest system is so unique, we don't have any shining examples of it to look at for reference. That's exciting in a way because it's quite literally trailblazing. It sucks at times though because we didn't know what we were doing at first. As we see more and more players join Loka and take part in Conquest, we have to rebalance and rebalance. The system will never be perfect, but it should also never stay the same.

And so, well, that was a rant, but hopefully it answers some questions about what's going on our minds about Conquest.
 
X_Cavator said:
1 player can quickdrop someone with the immediate burst this kit brings and just pearl away and do it again. You may think that "strategy" exists in conquest but it doesn't, raw skill wins conquest and the only way to do well is to be good at potion pvp.
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This is one of the reasons I'm looking forward to 1.9. It will remove the ability for this to be as devastating as you'd expect because it highly limits the amount of damage that can be done at one time. Also they fixed Strength pots in 1.9 changing it to +3 damage/level instead of +130% damage/level. so at best a lvl 2 strength pot will give you about a 50% damage boost if you are fully decked out. So battles are going to be longer and more drawn out.

Not to mention that 1.9 will remove the "who can click faster?" skill that is all too important in PvP right now. The actual skill of timing your swings and making the most of your attacks will balance PvP more than anything else could ever dream to. Granted, this system is hard to master and I've spent a decent amount of time on snapshots trying to get better at it. Even now that I feel competent with a sword, I still can't handle more than 3-4 mobs at once without having a difficult time. Can you imagine how much more interesting PvP will be? Players won't just run at each other hacking away. There will be a back and forth with well timed blocks and dodges swinging the tide of battle.
 
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It still remains to be seen what pot pvp people will do with 1.9 rules. Maybe it will become intriguing in other ways.
 
X_Cavator said:
If you think that the PvP now is all about click speed then you really know nothing. I would say click speed is the least important aspect of pvp, clicking at about 6 cps you can still do fine. As for "timing your hits" and all that other stuff in 1.9, the reason it will kill pvp is because it will no longer take skill. The amount of things necessary to do well in pot pvp are all going to be taken out in 1.9. The winner of a fight in 1.9 will be who has better gear and who has numbers which seems exactly what crypt wants pvp to be about. All I am saying is that when you update to 1.9, advertising as a pvp server will do you no good and the pot pvp system as of now is 100% skill based.
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Despite your overly abrasive manner in addressing anyone that ever disagrees with you, I think you are correct but only in part. PotPvP takes a lot of skill that most won't ever realize because they don't care to get that in-depth with it. Minecraft is an open world, survival game that encompasses much more than just fighting other players; enough so that only a small percentage will ever dedicate enough time to fully realize what goes into PotPvP.

However, I find that people of a nearly equal skill base with PvP will see one of two major deciding factors. I say this fully recognizing the importance of different potions, refilling your hotbar (and using pearls to do so in conjunction with replenishing hunger, paying close attention to your buff timers, etc... When people get to a point that they can multi-task and manage these things, your CPS and connection are the last two things that can make or break a fight. While you say CPS is the least important thing, I say it is one of the highest priorities. That is also to say that your accuracy, ability to use a high look sensitivity, and player awareness all add to that. The unfortunate truth is that it does matter and that is why the developers are altering it in a way that you can no longer rely on it to easily cut through large numbers of people who are not on par with the other factors.

I will restate the fact that it take a high level of skill to be successful in potion pvp. I spent many, many hours with Pearl to get even remotely decent. It took practice to learn a lot of little tactics that can make or break a fight. However, my CPS and accuracy just never met the same standard. We can also face the fact that with how things currently work, someone that has a mechanical macro for sprint spam or even attack spam will be nearly impossible to stop if they're half competent with their potions. Bear in mind, that is not an accusation directed at anyone, just an acknowledgement that they do exist and I've fought plenty of people with them.
 
Master pretty much sums up Pot PvP accurately. CPS is a stupid, dumb part of Pot PvP but whatever, it's there until 1.9. It is not, however, what's going make you good vs bad. To claim that click speed is why pot pvpers are good is a pretty classic example of Cherry Picking. It satiates their side of the argument by offloading the hard-work required to be good at pvp by distilling the whole argument down to the weakest element of pot pvp. It's easier to say cps is why you lose in pvp than to admit that it's because you haven't done your due dilligence of learning it.
 
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