Conquest Ultimatum

[EastBowmen]

Allow me to retort. The best way to encourage towns to join PvP isn't to taunt them and demoralize them at every given opportunity in public. You prattling on in chat about your 11v17 victory against a bunch of new people, then when Auru explained that they didn't have their gear fully up, you goaded them with the prospect (this you've used against Sudkuste as well) that "Maybe they shouldn't be in a war they know nothing about."

Temp, take Hilo's bragging with a grain of salt. They had many experienced pvpers fighting against you guys (including myself, but no I'm not with Hilo) and you guys, to be frank, didn't have many. Hilo and Valkyrie have had a long lasting rivalry this entire map. I never heard the end of the times when Hilo would beat Valkyrie.

Just take the Canadians with a damn grain of salt, Tempest.

 

[Defgnww]

The very idea of conquest has had a major flaw from the day it was introduced. Conquest 2.0 aims to fix issues with the system as I hear, but there's just a big issue with the concept of trying to become a capital. This issue is the fact that real, balanced fights are almost impossible to have. There will always be a very strong, dominant alliance on top. It's extremely hard to take them out, they have more resources, better players, and over time, the losing alliances will lose members who get sick of losing and want to join the winning alliance. The dominant alliance will want more battle, so they try to provoke the weaker towns. But this doesn't work. The weaker towns just become weaker, and the dominant alliance gets made when the weaker towns don't fight back. Fighting back hurts the weaker towns a lot on resources.

It's been like this ever since I joined into conquest during the fight between the "Special"/ alliance and Osiris (I think that's the name?). Then Argus was formed to balance out conquest to keep fighting going, since the Special alliance stopped wanting to fight. But this didn't work, Argus just got the best PVPers, the best and most mature players, which brought an end to the current dominant alliance. You can't balance other alliances out without being the strongest yourself, so Argus quickly became the new dominant alliance until the end of the last world.

People hated Argus for the same reason people hated Osiris and now Hilo/Eldritch: They're the dominant alliance, and they provoke weaker towns into fighting. We tried to incite more fighting by attacking the weaker players, but it never worked.

Conquest has gone through many overhauls, with the latest being Conquest 2.0. I'm confident and hopeful that 2.0 will fix a lot of the problems with conquest, but this problem I just described really doesn't seem preventable. It just seems to be the nature of battle.

PART 2:
The choice for alliances to not participate in conquest is not really so much a choice. If you don't have the resources or skills to fight the dominant alliance, then you only have things to lose. It will take time before anyone can reach the level of taking on a dominant alliance. When people are ready and able to fight, they will. If you want a real battle, the best thing to do is just to wait. Not everyone is sitting on a vault full of more gear and resources than most can imagine.

 

[Wolfegger]

I don't fault Hilo/Eldritch for kicking ass in PvP. More power to them for presenting a challenge to the rest of us.

Their Conquest activity is being conflated with their raiding activity. They do go after new towns and new players. It's within their right, this being a PvP server, but they shouldn't pretend they don't do it.

I don't buy that Mopyc refuses to attack Eldritch out of loyalty--he has betrayed so many, some of whom are some of the coolest people on the server. He won't attack Eldritch because he doesn't dare cross the best PvP-er on Loka, and he ever wants Skuhoo on his side in battle. Instead of complaining about others not having t-gens up, look inward, Mopyc.

 

[Skuhoo]

Their Conquest activity is being conflated with their raiding activity. They do go after new towns and new players. It's within their right, this being a PvP server, but they shouldn't pretend they don't do it.

They go after new towns and new players? Eldritch absolutely does not go after new towns/players and as far as I know, @bat3415 is the only member of Hilo who does. So who are you referring to?

 

[TempestBlood]

LICA is putting our decision to a vote tomorrow. That said, I'd suggest trying to make posts that give good reasoning on why we should, as well as considering what asses you've been to people in chat.

Rather than try to adamantly defend yourselves as "We did ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong." think "Huh, why is everyone peeved at us enough to halt Conquest?"

Until then, I urge the members of LICA to silence their voices on the subject until our meeting tomorrow.

 

[bat3415]

@Skuhoo @TempestBlood I know I kill newer players and the like when I pass them, and can be trolly or make an ass of myself in chat, it's my style of playing, and I don't take issue with myself gaining a reputation for it, as it is completely accurate, that being said, I am the only member of Hilo that acts in this manner, and you should not judge the many on the actions of the few.

 

[EastBowmen]

coolest people on the server. He won't attack Eldritch because he doesn't dare cross the best PvP-er on Loka

Props to Skuhoo for the title.

 

[Wolfegger]

They go after new towns and new players? Eldritch absolutely does not go after new towns/players and as far as I know, @bat3415 is the only member of Hilo who does. So who are you referring to?

You raided Sudkuste when they were just getting started--killed at least one player who was in crap gear. You attacked Arxem, before it even had one building finished. And you have been stalking Sunward. When Bat got into Auru and killed Grubul, you were on your way to help him out. Auru was no new town, at that point, but Grubul was pretty much the only active member. You help Bat do what he does, and if you would stop helping him, he might stop. You are complicit.

 

[Wolfegger]

Props to Skuhoo for the title.

Well, best active PvP-er

 

[kallious]

You raided Sudkuste when they were just getting started--killed at least one player who was in crap gear. You attacked Arxem, before it even had one building finished. And you have been stalking Sunward. When Bat got into Auru and killed Grubul, you were on your way to help him out. Auru was no new town, at that point, but Grubul was pretty much the only active member. You help Bat do what he does, and if you would stop helping him, he might stop. You are complicit.

Sudkuste had already been in multiple tgen fights against us at that point, and we went over there to place two inhibs, which we did. After Skuhoo killed their badly geared player, he never even picked up the items, and told them that it was there for them to pick up. Arxem is literally Newbish' proxy town in the south alliance, and their members had been playing on the server for awhile. They weren't new players. They didn't even kill any of the Arxem players anyway, only Newbish players that came. Skuhoo went to Sunward to visit them, and he's only been there twice, how on earth is this stalking anyone? Wolf, why do you always remember the past incorrectly?

 

[Ajaxan]

Well, I gave this thread awhile to stew and see if anything would come of it, clearly no real progress has been made. As is often the case both sides claim to be right and nothing the other side says will convince them otherwise.. Hopefully we can address problems on both sides and give everyone something to work on. For now though, let's take a look at the two most important opinions in the thread.

--------------------------- Crypt's Comments ------------------------------------​

This is obviously a flaw of the current Conquest system and is a big part of why C2 will be different in terms of there being objectives for participants in the system even when there aren't any other towns playing.

So clearly Crypt acknowledges a problem here! And they are working on it! And I tend to agree, their should be a way to gain conquest points through other means than fighting other towns. Especially if you consider the way I look at capital (even if you don't agree). Capitals need to live in prospering continents and a continent wracked with constant war isn't really ever going to be thriving. Anyway, the take away from Crypt's saying is that there is a problem, and it's being address. So Skuhoo, your original concern is going to be addressed. That said, stop abusing people in game for not fighting a losing battle. You know as well as I that Hilo + Eldritch is a team that wont be beaten this month.

--------------------------- Magpie's Comments ------------------------------------​

I will not stop any win trading, all that can be gained from it is the first 10 wins bonus. I also have little sympathy for those who take down their T Gens just to prevent others gaining points. In my view that is just as bad if not worse. They both act as a way of abusing the system which I hope we can solve come conquest 2.0. Equally I think both Eldritch and Hilo should tone down the taunting in chat. But at the end of the day it's a game with a fair amount of strategic depth and both parties are going about it a different way. As Cryptite said it is the systems fault not any players, since it relies on people placing T gens. But all this should be resolved once conquest 2.0 hits.

So part of a fair assessment is admitting fault on your side if it exist and I clearly even admins view what we did as a sort of rule abuse. But just like win trading they wont stop it. I guess, ironically, these rule abuses even each other out (Note that I never raised hell calling this idea unfair). Anyway, is what Auru did by taking their TGens down kinda cheap? Yes, and I apologize for giving you a false sense of hope that we were ready to 100% commit to a full on conquest war. Our original intention was to remove them if we found we were outmatched. But given what we did go ahead, abuse that win trading. Either way, DO NOT keep abusing people in chat. Keep it to yourself, it was fun at first but its gotten out of hand, you won the Battle of SouthGate (Auru's name for the battle given its placement right outside our southern gate.), good for you, but its over and apparently so is conquest until 2.0.

--------------------------- Summary ------------------------------------
​

So what should everyone take away from this? Well, most importantly, this thread is a done deal. The problems are being addressed and nothing you say in this thread is going to change a single thing. Auru, Sudkuste, New Ibbish, and the rest will not be putting up TGens no matter what you say. On that same coin flip, no matter how much you tell Hilo and Eldritch to fight each other, they clearly will not be.

Anything else to take away here? Yeah, one more big thing. Stop hating each other over the game. No matter who's side you're on you should be friends with everyone. We came here to have fun and nothing will subtract from that fun more than actually hating the people you play against. Have fun, laugh, and enjoy the game. If a battle ends, I want to see everyone thanking each other for a fun battle and telling each other it was a good fight. (This isn't directed at anyone in particular, its just a perspective check because even I get too invested from time to time.)

Ok, wrap up the thread and go home everyone. Good game. I hope everyone got some frustration out, but now its time to be friends again. Cheers to Loka and the bright future it has.

And now it's time for me to catch some sleep before the workers wake me up at the crack of dawn to put down hardwood floors...