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Suggestion Looking at cost of war on loka, and economic problems to conquest towns caused by the new RI update

SayreSlayer

Well-Known Member
Muted
Looking through a recent thread on the new RI update, I saw a post by crypt:

"Pretty much all players have reported getting about 1-1.5 stacks of diamonds (64 - 96) from one RI.
Breaking it down:
  • It currently takes one player 1 hour to fund your entire town for 1 day.
  • That's assuming they mined literally only diamonds and no other ores.
  • That's also assuming players did not use Silk Touch and Fortune the diamond ores later for what would be about 2.2x the output of 185 diamonds. This pays for another extra day of the generator.
  • Seagull Shores currently has a daily cost of 700 shards. That's 58 diamonds for an entire day.
  • Your town has 5 actives at this time.
  • Seagull Shores pays the majority cost of all of Best in the West with 35 territories (5 over the maximum, because of World Capital)
  • Seagull Shores' current Town Balance allows it to run without additional funding for 58 days.
  • Seagull Shores is a well established town that has been around for awhile, so the following data is not something newer towns would necessarily have, but that said
    • Seagull Shores' current Stored Wealth accounting only Void Storage is an additional 21,835 shards.
    • Including other containers throughout the town, the final Current Stored Wealth of your town is 176,321 shards.
  • In summation, Seagull Shores could run without visiting an RI or mining anything at all for 310 days.
    To confirm, you believe that it is too much of a burden for perhaps up to 2 players having to spend 1 hour on Loka to afford funding an Alliance that is the World Capital of the Server and also has greater than the maximum number of territories for one day?"
And I thought, what a terrible example!

Seagull shores has no real expenses. They live on a stagnant continent with no real conflict, they have massive reserves of wealth, they have veteran players and grinders, and have no need for god gear, pearls, mods etc

In contrast lets just look at the cost of war for Donzula:
Any major fight costs:
60 ais are used on the battlefield alone and AIs that are used at our towns after the fight aren't used, so its essentially 8 ais, post fight, per person. For donzula alone, which makes up about 2/3 of the forces here, thats 40 ais used on the field and another 8 per person post fight, amounting to around 6k in shards per fight in AI costs, as a conservative estimate considering we aren't counting any repairs made at town during the fight.
We also used the upwards of 4000 potions in battles last month, which isn't counting the innumerate amount of wilds fights and raids that do add up over time, which amounts to hours of grinding.

A given expenses for a month costs:

Equipment costs for an active town are much more draining than they seem. Donzula goes through 3-4 pages of vs swords and vs armor a month in assorted wilds fights and deaths, and many members logging on for one or two fights, and subsequently never returning their gear and leaving. This month alone, we have already gone through about 2 pages of all the of above due to our deaths/new recruits. This is the real cost to conquest towns. Conquest is a numbers game of who can bring more new fighters on the server. Having 16 actives and more warping means that it's just that many more new people losing gear. Heres another cost estimate in shards for our losses in sets this month so far, not counting XP, shulkers, echests, eltryas etc:

60 god sets = 28 diamonds * 60 = 1680 diamonds only halfway into the month

30 or so god pickaxes and shovels = 30 * 2 = 60 diamonds

If this trend continues into later in the month, thats already around 3.3k dias a month in armor, tools, and swords alone, or 40,000 thousand shards.

On an extreme month, when we're recruiting and fighting 4-5 fights a month (like the last 2 months) ,we're at around 54 thousand shards a month, Another 4-10k a month is spent on various things like buying restricted resources for mods, building, or realistically, just lost.
Our monthly bill for gear, AIs, tools, and other stuff stated above is around 64k a month, dues add another 17k, meaning 81k in shards monthly.
81k shards is around 6.75k diamonds. Our grinders get around a stack of diamonds per RI trip. Thats 106 trips of mining, monthly, to fund Donzula's bill. /Continued in 2nd post
 
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8 voters
You've been in an alliance with towns that have been here from the start and like your town, they and you are filthy rich, so this doesn't even matter to you, because like you said you only go mining maybe once a month with the old RI. What he's trying to say is the cost of war is sucks for new towns and alliances, with little to gain other then some land.

How rich a town is has little (or less frankly) consequence if you're talking about how to manage a town/alliance. How you choose to run your towns/alliances also is not really any fault of the server? Don't forget, my origins were in Valinor which was abysmally poor until we figured out how to get off the ground in terms of conquest. Not to mention that we then formed an alliance. I am well versed in these matters. This was just an exaggeration plain and simple. This does matter to me, because I was able to get so wealthy because of how imbalanced the RIs were for a VERY long time. We were all very spoiled with how plentiful wealth was in the RIs.

We have 16 actives, but like Sayre said the only ones who grind are really the leaders. The people who are seen as actives are people who logged on for fights that lasted 30 minutes or longer. At one point we had 33 actives, yet you didn't see them all grinding did you? No, because they're simply fighters who log on for fights because they only enjoy the Conquest aspect of Loka. Your idea of getting these 16 actives to mine and group mine doesn't really exist for each town. The 1.9 community just sits and grinds on kit pvp servers and doesn't actually know how to grind unless they come from servers like towny.

" In donzulas case, we're still funded by 3-4 grinders for about 15-16 active players, and many others warping."
But for reasons stated above, that 1:3-1:4 ration is hard to achieve, if not impossible. There's a reason most major land holders lack grinders/


Regardless of any changes/discussion about the new RIs, this is the intentional change here. We intend to never allow a large town/alliance to be effectively funded by a disproportionally low number of players. We recognize that there will always be a smaller number of the grinders in an alliance, and a small number is okay, but people had become comfortable with effectively one player funding the entire alliance, and that's butts.
I get the struggle, really I do. We had a small number of people carrying the war effort on their back and shoulders in Elysian Pact and it's not fun. You need to get your people to grind, if you want to fight the wars, you need to strap on your mining helmet and do the hard work. Period.

Did you even read the entire post? Look:
"106 could be expected reasonably of 5-6 hardcore grinders, if tats all that was required of them. However, donzula still requires pot materials, gunpowder, basic materials, pearls (big time investment if not just bought) that take a good amount of time aswell."
Especially for a town without the balak grinding buffs, shards/diamonds aren't even 30-40% of the grind to fund the town. Potions, gunpowder, enchants, modding mats, pearls etc all take up an equal if not greater amount of time than just shards do. I also agree that if 1/4,1/3 of our actives grinded regularly it would be manageable. In fact I even said it here:
One thing I suspect we agree on is perhaps ender pearl grinding. I know for a fact that is probably the most time consuming grind for any towns. The others have various ways to grind them including the nether shrines which makes grinding for potion materials significantly easier and less time consuming.
 
"How rich a town is has little (or less frankly) consequence if you're talking about how to manage a town/alliance. How you choose to run your towns/alliances also is not really any fault of the server? Don't forget, my origins were in Valinor which was abysmally poor until we figured out how to get off the ground in terms of conquest. Not to mention that we then formed an alliance. I am well versed in these matters. This was just an exaggeration plain and simple. This does matter to me, because I was able to get so wealthy because of how imbalanced the RIs were for a VERY long time. We were all very spoiled with how plentiful wealth was in the RIs."

The wealth of RI's previously just made the pre-existing monotonous grinding be tolerable, as it was the one thing you didn't really have to focus on. Regardless of RI's , grinding for conquest while not already rich is insanely boring and will just lead to burn out of new players. Even the predominant alliances usually dont support new towns, and just raid them instead, making matters worse (myself included. I do think lemons point is somewhat fair aswell -- server veterans, who haven't been actively fighting this year, don't really share the perspective of grinding for conquest while new, especially considering how the scale of conquest fights has only seemed to be gaining until cov died.

"I get the struggle, really I do. We had a small number of people carrying the war effort on their back and shoulders in Elysian Pact and it's not fun. You need to get your people to grind, if you want to fight the wars, you need to strap on your mining helmet and do the hard work. Period.'
Just because something was suffered through in the past doesn't mean it should be continued now. That type of circular logic and attitude is what turns ppl off from loka considering as the QoL is dropping for grinders already


"One thing I suspect we agree on is perhaps ender pearl grinding. I know for a fact that is probably the most time consuming grind for any towns. The others have various ways to grind them including the nether shrines which makes grinding for potion materials significantly easier and less time consuming."
You can get MAYBE a 2-3 stacks of relevant materials from a good 2 hour nether run, purging all shrines and running dread w/o balak boost. Towns today require thousands monthly. Pearls suck for sure though no idea whose great idea making them obscenely expensive was
 
Then don’t recruit. Loka isn’t even really balanced towards large sizes from the conquest stuff. Your just putting your town in an unecessary burden then complaining when grinding for a massive alliance that tona of ppl join daily it’s not meant to be easy to carry all of that
 
Then don’t recruit. Loka isn’t even really balanced towards large sizes from the conquest stuff. Your just putting your town in an unecessary burden then complaining when grinding for a massive alliance that tona of ppl join daily it’s not meant to be easy to carry all of that
let’s take away your riches and see you start fresh then :) feed your war, pay your taxes :)
 
let’s take away your riches and see you start fresh then :) feed your war, pay your taxes :)

that already happend lol I didn’t have jack shit when I made Southern Valyria I had to actually grind it but it was doable because I didn’t have a shit ton of people. Big people towns on Loka = suck
 
that already happend lol I didn’t have jack shit when I made Southern Valyria I had to actually grind it but it was doable because I didn’t have a shit ton of people. Big people towns on Loka = suck
bruh, you act like sima and fatstay werent grinding 24/7 before you made the town, they both had ATLEAST a shulker of cores.
 
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