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Suggestion Nerf to Knockback Swords

UghBraces

UghBraces

Well-Known Member
Currently in conquest I believe that knockback swords are being used way more in recent years on Loka compared to a couple years ago. The problem essentially that me and most other players face is the issue of opponents "mainhanding" knockback swords which is pretty difficult to combat against. I believe I have found a solution for this problem and that is removing the sharpness enchantment on knockback swords. Doing this, players would no longer be incentivized to use knockback swords in "normal combat." You would also still be able to use knockback for all the "primary" uses that it is intended to be used for, such as: knocking charges, boosting your teammates, or knocking enemy players away from you when you are trying to refill.

This is not a fully thought out idea so any comments helping refine the idea would be very helpful.

I believe that if this change were implemented, then modules such as Supercharged would be extremely overpowered, because you have 30 seconds to take a charge and would not have to pot if players are just kbing you away. My friend mimo4 thought of a good idea to combat this which would be to make players that are charged take damage as if they were being hit with a Sharpness 5 sword.

TLDR: Nerf knockback by making it so you can’t have sharpness on KB swords. Charged players should take extra damage from these swords so the game stays balanced.
 
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42 voters
Lampp_ said:
because they have the same reward of the damage
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Players spamming KB already inherently deal less damage because they're knocking an enemy out of range and hence not getting in as many hits as someone not using KB. Of course in a pure 1v1 this is mitigated by the fact they're getting hit less, so the damage if both are critting would be equal.

And in order to blow someone away 8 blocks as in the complaints above, it has to be a sprint hit rather than a crit, which again does less damage. If KB2 were truly superior and allowed same damage output / kill potential as non-KB swords, the ratio of kills on people's lores would be in favor of the KB2 sword. But every one I know, including myself (550:20), has like a ratio of 25:1 in favor of kills on non-KB lore.

The most effective use of KB from what I can tell is using it when someone is about to pot (so after 2 crits with non-KB), but I wouldn't count this as "mainhanding" which is what this suggestion is aimed towards. A lot of the people +1ing this suggestion are also asking for KB to be removed entirely, not just reducing the damage. To me it very much seems that the main issue a lot of people have is that bad players are able to kite too easily using KB, and understandbly this can be frustrating, but for overall server health I do believe conquest has to be enjoyable for bad players, too.

And the fact that carries regularly get double digit kills to me means that PVP skill is rewarded enough.
 
what777 said:
Players spamming KB already inherently deal less damage because they're knocking an enemy out of range and hence not getting in as many hits as someone not using KB. Of course in a pure 1v1 this is mitigated by the fact they're getting hit less, so the damage if both are critting would be equal.
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This is just objectively untrue. You can out damage people with your KB 2 and it happens quite regularly. If you get the spacing right you can get a number of crits off with a KB 2 and the person you are fighting often misses theirs (because the hits look bizarre on their POV) and because they have to turn and pot. It makes no sense that there isn’t a trade off for being able to do knock people away like that. The swords shouldn’t do the same amount of damage because one has a completely different wonky ability. If you want to use the sword that does that, there is something you should be sacrificing.
 
3D3R said:
What about if only the 33% damage boost is removed?
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I think something like this or either max sharpness 2-3 on kb swords would also be an acceptable nerf. The point of this post is so that there should be a drawback to using kb as your main weapon. Currently it is very overpowered and there is honestly no reason to use a normal sword as opposed to a kb sword. If a kb sword did any less damage than a normal sword, people would automatically switch back to normal swords, which is my goal of this post.
 
daqniel said:
honestly, make it so u cant kb any1 unless they are a couple blocks near tgen / inhib
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this has been suggested before and denied, i believe that kb has other uses outside of tgen/inhib which is why i believe that my solution is the best one.
 
what777 said:
Players spamming KB already inherently deal less damage because they're knocking an enemy out of range and hence not getting in as many hits as someone not using KB. Of course in a pure 1v1 this is mitigated by the fact they're getting hit less, so the damage if both are critting would be equal.
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This is looking at it from an objective stand point obviously using kb isn't good for chasing someone but if your 1v1ing someone On average you will either get the same amount of hits (Assuming the 2 players are of equal skill level) because getting knocked back naturally messes with your aim
what777 said:
And in order to blow someone away 8 blocks as in the complaints above, it has to be a sprint hit rather than a crit, which again does less damage. If KB2 were truly superior and allowed same damage output / kill potential as non-KB swords, the ratio of kills on people's lores would be in favor of the KB2 sword. But every one I know, including myself (550:20), has like a ratio of 25:1 in favor of kills on non-KB lore.
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KB is super finnicky and if your jumping you can get sent 15+ blocks its not just "oh i can only be sent 8 blocks away if im not getting crit"
what777 said:
The most effective use of KB from what I can tell is using it when someone is about to pot (so after 2 crits with non-KB), but I wouldn't count this as "mainhanding" which is what this suggestion is aimed towards. A lot of the people +1ing this suggestion are also asking for KB to be removed entirely, not just reducing the damage. To me it very much seems that the main issue a lot of people have is that bad players are able to kite too easily using KB, and understandbly this can be frustrating, but for overall server health I do believe conquest has to be enjoyable for bad players, too.
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If you look at what bad players are doing in conquest they are not main handing KB only and more often then not its carries who do understand the server, you are making an insane statement by saying "they want kbed removed" when they actually just want it so that the only thing that should remain the same about KB is its KITING ability not damage ability which means bad players have the same usage out of it but carries who use it as a weapon would get nerfed
what777 said:
And the fact that carries regularly get double digit kills to me means that PVP skill is rewarded enough.
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? where does this hold relevance ? no one is saying pvp SKILL isn't rewarded the argument stems from the fact KB sword and Non KB Swords in a 1v1 or groupfight situation has a very disproportionate risk reward when compared to eachother
 
fa1c said:
-1 if u guys can spam shield then others should be able to spam kb
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you can only use shield in a shield wall fight, because shields have been nerfed
fa1c said:
Ok but how would u defend + u guys use shields without the mod too
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you have not read the post, you can still knock charges, and i do not really get complaining about using shields when they have a cooldown. this sounds like a you problem because shields have already been nerfed to the ground man
 
mimo4 said:
you can only use shield in a shield wall fight, because shields have been nerfed

you have not read the post, you can still knock charges, and i do not really get complaining about using shields when they have a cooldown. this sounds like a you problem because shields have already been nerfed to the ground man
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Im talking to ulf about the defending thing...
I thought he meant no kb unless u put the module
 
fa1c said:
Im talking to ulf about the defending thing...
I thought he meant no kb unless u put the module
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i dont think his suggestion was serious, but imo hes right, shields have already been nerfed to the ground and you have to sacrifice using a proper attacker module to use them
 
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