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Opening vuln / Betraying rule.

Scotlxnd

Scotlxnd

Well-Known Member
Slicer
Community Rep
hello team, it’s me, Scotlxnd, a representative from HL. I’m a bit unsure about how this rule works now, because I thought that if a sub opened vuln, it was allowed since it has happened in the past.

Anyways, from what I saw, What777 said it’s only allowed if a town owner opens vuln (for example, when placing on a neutral). Could we get a clear rule explaining this in more detail so we know exactly what is and isn’t allowed in the future?
I ask because I just got forced on at 5:02 AM to warp, only for it to end up being termed. Please and thank you.


If you have any thoughts on this, please share them below!!!
 
+1 althought HL on top, I feel these bans were unjustified because of lack of a rule, and the fact it has been done in the past with 0 action taken.
 
lceSpiice said:
+1 althought HL on top, I feel these bans were unjustified because of lack of a rule, and the fact it has been done in the past with 0 action taken.
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that is not correct, a pretty much exact same thing happened in 2023, and the results were exactly the same (tempbans)
only difference now is that alcali got a permban, which is related to his poor history on the server (previous bans)
 
The rules explicitly state that abusing town perms to the detriment of the town is against the rules. It's a moot point, however, as win trading is also against the rules and what Alcaili did is as blatantly win trading as you could get.

It's also frustrating hearing players trying to excuse rule-breakers by vaguely referencing the past and accusing us of being inconsistent. I don't know what incidents you're referring to, who was involved, whether it was reported, or what evidence there was at the time. I do, however, know of specific examples of past win trading similar to this one where the involved players were punished.
 
+1 Look, when I checked it myself before I ended up placing I read over the win trading rules and saw nothing punishing for my intent. What happened was when our vuln closed, someone messaged me asking me how much to reopen it. I ended up making around 100k worth of stuff and when I went to go place, I asked again and the person said, “Go place on Ancient Forrest 10 that’s the tile I want you to place on, no exceptions” because it was a 6m tile or wtv that means. I was given a time and place and listened because there the ones who paid me to do what they asked ( same goes with irl stuff that’s why I did that ) so when everyone’s in place I get told in vc to log on because they placed there neutral and wanted me to finish out the plan. I’m not listening names and full details, that’s coming at a later time, but I had full intentions to warp and finish all 3 fights, but when I was logging people on I was kicked from town and was forced out the fight I was supposed to warp to. But because of this I got banned because of an unclarified rule that I had looked at and checked with multiple people all telling me that it was okay. Overall I think the current rules list needs an overhaul in general but mainly focused on win trades, town betrayal, and harassment.

Thank you for your time,

Alcaili
 
__Ske__ said:
that is not correct, a pretty much exact same thing happened in 2023, and the results were exactly the same (tempbans)
only difference now is that alcali got a permban, which is related to his poor history on the server (previous bans)
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I’ve been banned two times and only one was major. The first time was back in 2023 when I was a recruit, new to the server and didn’t know much. I invited an alt to my town and got banned for it. ( you can check my ban appeals if you want to know more ) Second time I got banned was a total accident. I was playing on a server, LSN for short and was using freecam on it. Usually I restart my game to play on my loka optimized mods, but instead I forgot to change it when exploring and paid for it. Both of these I can explain more dm me if your interested.
 
Alcaili said:
+1 Look, when I checked it myself before I ended up placing I read over the win trading rules and saw nothing punishing for my intent. What happened was when our vuln closed, someone messaged me asking me how much to reopen it. I ended up making around 100k worth of stuff and when I went to go place, I asked again and the person said, “Go place on Ancient Forrest 10 that’s the tile I want you to place on, no exceptions” because it was a 6m tile or wtv that means. I was given a time and place and listened because there the ones who paid me to do what they asked ( same goes with irl stuff that’s why I did that ) so when everyone’s in place I get told in vc to log on because they placed there neutral and wanted me to finish out the plan. I’m not listening names and full details, that’s coming at a later time, but I had full intentions to warp and finish all 3 fights, but when I was logging people on I was kicked from town and was forced out the fight I was supposed to warp to. But because of this I got banned because of an unclarified rule that I had looked at and checked with multiple people all telling me that it was okay. Overall I think the current rules list needs an overhaul in general but mainly focused on win trades, town betrayal, and harassment.

Thank you for your time,

Alcaili
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From what I understood, you got banned for a combination of breaking both the town betrayal and win trading rules.

Town betrayal was broken because you weren’t full owner of the town you were in, thus meaning you were quite literally betraying your town by opening the vuln, and going against the owners’ wishes.

Win trading was apparently broken because nobody intended to warp to what you placed…?

You placing a neutral instead of a fight would’ve probably prevented the win trading ban reason, but don’t take my word for it. I do wholeheartedly agree that the rules regarding this kind of stuff aren’t clear at all, but for your set of circumstances the ban seems legitimate. It appears the entire situation hasn’t been cleared up yet so you should probably wait for staff to figure things out…

I’m also pretty sure loka staff do not care about reports made 1- by a banned person and 2- using evidence withheld for a while as blackmail of sorts
 
Skuhoo said:
The rules explicitly state that abusing town perms to the detriment of the town is against the rules. It's a moot point, however, as win trading is also against the rules and what Alcaili did is as blatantly win trading as you could get.

It's also frustrating hearing players trying to excuse rule-breakers by vaguely referencing the past and accusing us of being inconsistent. I don't know what incidents you're referring to, who was involved, whether it was reported, or what evidence there was at the time. I do, however, know of specific examples of past win trading similar to this one where the involved players were punished.
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you guys should make tking and removing people frm reins bannable then
 
iBanks said:
you guys should make tking and removing people frm reins bannable then
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Did you even read what he said?

like Mimo said, being dumb in a fight (tking) and removing are a lot different than this. It’s literally been a rule for years why is it a problem when one of your people get banned?
 
I still do not understand the confusion around this situation. The rule clearly states:
1756058757117.png
Placing because the ENEMY ALLIANCE LEADER paid you to place, when nobody in your alliance wants to place, when you have coordinated with the enemy alliance to open their vuln so you can place is "starting a battle with no intention to win". The fight was not placed because he wanted to win, it was placed because he got paid by the enemy
 
Windows10Laptop said:
From what I understood, you got banned for a combination of breaking both the town betrayal and win trading rules.

Town betrayal was broken because you weren’t full owner of the town you were in, thus meaning you were quite literally betraying your town by opening the vuln, and going against the owners’ wishes.

Win trading was apparently broken because nobody intended to warp to what you placed…?

You placing a neutral instead of a fight would’ve probably prevented the win trading ban reason, but don’t take my word for it. I do wholeheartedly agree that the rules regarding this kind of stuff aren’t clear at all, but for your set of circumstances the ban seems legitimate. It appears the entire situation hasn’t been cleared up yet so you should probably wait for staff to figure things out…

I’m also pretty sure loka staff do not care about reports made 1- by a banned person and 2- using evidence withheld for a while as blackmail of sorts
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From what I know I never broke any of the town betrayal rules. I never stole, helped someone get in, had someone help me get in, didn’t raid the town as a builder, didn’t use my sub to maliciously bring the town down (removing people, perms, zones, rooms,) and never attempted to destroy anything.

Yes I get the win trading ban, but I still had full intention to warp and win the fight, although I should’ve chose better decision and rethought what I was doing, a perm ban is still a little harsh considering that this has been done countless times over the years and always ended up with a temp ban 90% of the time to the people who got the same punishment as I did.
 

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