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[Theme]

I'm curious what you think of Vexaay's behavior in his screenshots?

Cryptite, respectfully, we have reached an impasse in regards to the way staff handle appeals.

Are Slicers allowed to say n word?? @lurrn @cryptite

wsg gang members of loka minecraft and i am a gang member of loka minecraft lurrn has been exposed in the following video dont mess witd the gang. also wqnderbut is trash gg sorry about that.

forums.lokamc.com

If you could kindly read the second point by Magpieman, it is evident you don't consider messages/statements outside of Loka, and for good reason.

Not only are you unable to guarantee us that these screenshots are real, it is against the staff standard to even base a decision / judgement off of them- unless you're willing to concede that you're a hypocrite. Staff handle ban complaints together; this is a staff standard, not something Magpieman decided on his own.

You want my opinion on them: These messages represent unacceptable behavior- but yet again, Loka staff, despite running this server for 9 years have yet to grasp the concept of burden of evidence.

 

[Adrett]

I’m banned for griefing, not random discord screenshots which people can fabricate on the spot. I’ve been banned for 2 years. If you give me this chance, I will prove to you myself that I have matured during my time off loka and have become a better person.

 

[mimo4]

though i still agree with what i said earlier,

i like to think you are being genuine but idk what's the point of responding to lurrn with meme screenshots rather than trying to defend yourself. even if lurrn was that toxic i don't think it would excuse any toxicity on your end

after reading both this thread and Themes unban appeal thread, i think Vexaay should be unbanned and given a chance to prove how he behaves on loka and its affiliated community discords. 2 years is a long time and i think Vexaay should be given the chance to become a member of the community and prove that he has matured. i also think his desire to play loka with his friends and teach them 1.9 is a genuine one. +1.

 

[ThePigGang]

There is absolutely no reason Vexaay should remain banned.

Look you could argue those screenshots aren't actually Vexaay all you want (doubt btw) but his response to being outed as a toxic person was to send these pictures:

Spoiler: Screenshots

Your buddy didn't even try to argue that the account "social" isn't him or even that the screenshots are fake. That looks and sounds pretty guilty.

I will prove to you myself that I have matured during my time off loka and have become a better person.

I can understand wanting to play loka after such a long time but claiming your mature when you mindlessly respond with screenshots with the intent to get back at someone on your own appeal isn't helping. You did it twice as well.

As for you @Glaivee,

I advise loka staff to distance themselves from these messages on servers unrelated to loka at all. Focus on the substance, the actual appeal, and things that you can actually monitor and confirm.

Just that it is almost impossible to prove their legitimacy so should therefore not be considered.

That's why I recommend staff only consider evidence from loka servers, because they can actually confirm that those messages are real.

we have reached an impasse in regards to the way staff handle appeals

Trust me when I say loka staff is beyond competent compared to you and your goon squad of actual "pretentious redditors". You, @Theme, and @noobmaster55113 clearly are new to the forums, I am not sure why you keep bringing it up but believe it or not staff knows how to judge an appeal. You seem to be stuck on this misconception that whether an appeal is accepted or denied solely depends on the original message of the thread when in reality it is the thread itself. How the community reacts to an appeal definitely should play a part in staff's verdict.

Anyways good luck with this appeal -1

 

[glaive7]

Look you could argue those screenshots aren't actually Vexaay all you want (doubt btw) but his response to being outed as a toxic person was to send these pictures:

Spoiler: these

Your buddy didn't even try to argue that the account "social" isn't him or even that the screenshots are fake. That looks and sounds pretty guilty.

I can understand wanting to play loka after such a long time but claiming your mature when you mindlessly respond with screenshots with the intent to get back at someone on your own appeal isn't helping. You did it twice as well.

As for you @Glaivee,




Trust me when I say loka staff is beyond competent compared to you and your goon squad of actual "pretentious redditors". You, @Theme, and @noobmaster55113 clearly are new to the forums, I am not sure why you keep bringing it up but believe it or not staff knows how to judge an appeal. You seem to be stuck on this misconception that whether an appeal is accepted or denied solely depends on the original message of the thread when in reality it is the thread itself. How the community reacts to an appeal definitely should play a part in staff's verdict.

Anyways good luck with this appeal -1

I don't know if you're trolling at this point or not. I would have ignored Lurnn being a moron if Cryptite himself didn't prompt Theme to comment on the screenshots. Clearly, these screenshots are on the admins mind, even though they should hold no credence. Until an admin publicly comments on the invalidity of these screenshots, I will maintain my stance.

"You seem to be stuck on this misconception that whether an appeal is accepted or denied solely depends on the original message of the thread"
I have never once believed this- another reason why I decided to reply instead of letting you goons ramble on with irrelevant screenshots. What I will say is that there has not been a single decent rebuttal so far against Vexaay's ban being removed. You seem to have a problem with him responding to screenshots with screenshots, but that only makes him as mature as the original poster (Lurnn). Are you making a point that Vexaay is as mature as Lurnn? Isn't that good for him?

You can cope about me being new and not understanding anything- I 100% believe I am a more competent and unbiased source than you.

 

[kiadmowi]

it is evident you don't consider messages/statements outside of Loka, and for good reason.

Difference between ban appeals and asking for someone to be banned is where staff have to look to assess the person's behavior. For Vexaay appealing his ban they have to look at his behavior outside of Loka to see if he's worth unbanning because, well, he can't have exhibited any behavior on Loka without alting. For accusations regarding Lurrn's behavior they don't have to look beyond how he acts in Loka unless it's more serious accusations (like doxxing or harassment) with sufficient evidence, which neither of Vexaay's screenshots have.

So no, staff is not hypocritical, they're working with what they've got.

Loka staff, despite running this server for 9 years have yet to grasp the concept of burden of evidence.

Their 9 years still evidently beat your 9 days of being on these forums, so let me reiterate; it's on Vexaay to prove he's worthy of an unban via his behavior outside of Loka because that's all Loka staff's got to assess him.

 

[ThePigGang]

Are you making a point that Vexaay is as mature as Lurnn? Isn't that good for him?

If you truly believe yourself to be competent then you would know that the point being made is that Vexaay isn't mature because of his childish response to being outed as a soreloser regardless of who sent the screenshots. Period. If you can't see that as a "decent rebutal" it speaks to your claims of being a "unbiased source".

that only makes him as mature as the original poster (Lurnn)

I don't understand the obsession with Lurrn, your rationlizing Vexaay's behavior because you believe he acted the same way Lurrn did? At the end of the day its Vexaay appealing his ban so even if Lurrn is being immature (which he isn't), his maturity plays no role. Those screenshots show Vexaay being toxic in a recent timeframe, hence why Lurrn posted them. Vexaay posted his screenshots attempting to damage someone's reputation because they showed his true character.

 

[glaive7]

Difference between ban appeals and asking for someone to be banned is where staff have to look to assess the person's behavior. For Vexaay appealing his ban they have to look at his behavior outside of Loka to see if he's worth unbanning because, well, he can't have exhibited any behavior on Loka without alting. For accusations regarding Lurrn's behavior they don't have to look beyond how he acts in Loka unless it's more serious accusations (like doxxing or harassment) with sufficient evidence, which neither of Vexaay's screenshots have.

So no, staff is not hypocritical, they're working with what they've got.


Their 9 years still evidently beat your 9 days of being on these forums, so let me reiterate; it's on Vexaay to prove he's worthy of an unban via his behavior outside of Loka because that's all Loka staff's got to assess him.

"What they've got" is a bunch of random screenshots which have not been validated in any way. What we do know is during this time, Vexaay has become a positive influence on the PvP community as a whole by making videos attracting hundreds/thousands of new players.

it's on Vexaay to prove he's worthy of an unban via his behavior outside of Loka because that's all Loka staff's got to assess him.

Assess him for what? He griefed something in minecraft. He didn't ddos someone, he wasn't racist in game or extremely toxic. He has apologised for his actions, waited a sufficient amount of time, and has asked for a chance to prove that he is a better person.

 

[glaive7]

If you truly believe yourself to be competent then you would know that the point being made is that Vexaay isn't mature because of his childish response to being outed as a soreloser regardless of who sent the screenshots. Period. If you can't see that as a "decent rebutal" it speaks to your claims of being a "unbiased source".


I don't understand the obsession with Lurrn, your rationlizing Vexaay's behavior because you believe he acted the same way Lurrn did? At the end of the day its Vexaay appealing his ban so even if Lurrn is being immature (which he isn't), his maturity plays no role. Those screenshots show Vexaay being toxic in a recent timeframe, hence why Lurrn posted them. Vexaay posted his screenshots attempting to damage someone's reputation because they showed his true character.

"Those screenshots show Vexaay being toxic in a recent timeframe, hence why Lurrn posted them"
Maybe re-read my previous messages, I clearly explain why these messages hold no value. I'm sure Lurnn is plenty smart, he also knows how easy it is to fake these messages. They were posted in an attempt to derail the appeal of someone who has waited a sufficient amount of time; in which case, Lurnn is as mature as Vexaay was.

"At the end of the day its Vexaay appealing his ban so even if Lurrn is being immature (which he isn't), his maturity plays no role"

Here's something you just aren't able to grasp your head around. Despite being a slicer, you are unaware of the expected conduct that comes with the rank. Please read: https://forums.lokamc.com/threads/slicer-rank.3551/
At this point, Vexaay's "most immature" reply can only be scaled to the maturity of a respected Slicer. Is this a problem to you?

 

[Lurnn]

I really was content to provide staff with all necessary proof in private, even state so here. Yet I found myself being questioned not only by some new players but actual Lokans who I've known and played alongside for years, which has truly confused me, nonetheless I will clear everything up in this post and hopefully let it be the last, I plan on debunking just about every post on this thread since my last so enjoy!

source trust me

Some people don't trust you saying "source: bro trust me" ?!?!?!?!

They really don't have to trust, I was content leaving this is private with staff as I said and the result of the appeal would have indicated the validity, not to mention vexaays response of actual fake screenshots instead of a real rebuttal made his guilt quite clear, however that is just an implication so yes no need to jump the gun yet I suppose!

I made a forums account because I saw Lurnn saying a bunch of bullshit so I called him out for it. I don't care at all whether Vexaay gets unbanned or remains banned.
EDIT: After re-reading this thread, I do care now. There is absolutely no reason Vexaay should remain banned. It's clear your gang of pretentious redditors and nerds have no genuine response to anything I've said up 'til now; you've resorted to trying to strawman my arguments which is laughable to say the least. Have a good day.

If the screenshots are deemed valid you still wouldn't see this as an appropriate reason? In a former response you claimed, and I'll quote
"I am not saying any of these screenshots distributed are real/doctored." Have you suddenly determined they certainly are doctored and thus he is innocent?

Cryptite, respectfully, we have reached an impasse in regards to the way staff handle appeals.

Are Slicers allowed to say n word?? @lurrn @cryptite

wsg gang members of loka minecraft and i am a gang member of loka minecraft lurrn has been exposed in the following video dont mess witd the gang. also wqnderbut is trash gg sorry about that.

forums.lokamc.com

If you could kindly read the second point by Magpieman, it is evident you don't consider messages/statements outside of Loka, and for good reason.

Not only are you unable to guarantee us that these screenshots are real, it is against the staff standard to even base a decision / judgement off of them- unless you're willing to concede that you're a hypocrite. Staff handle ban complaints together; this is a staff standard, not something Magpieman decided on his own.

You want my opinion on them: These messages represent unacceptable behavior- but yet again, Loka staff, despite running this server for 9 years have yet to grasp the concept of burden of evidence.

You've linked a thread which quite literally all explains itself with a year old video, yes the second point by magpieman is completely true and loka stands by this, however you're asking him to blatantly disregard proof that vexaay is not a changed person and allow him back on LOKA this would be him failing to police loka... not the internet, making that point so insufferably invalid and just a terrible reach.
I find it amusing how much you seem to think you know about the staff standard, regardless they certainly can make decisions on those screenshots if they so wish.

I’m banned for griefing, not random discord screenshots which people can fabricate on the spot. I’ve been banned for 2 years. If you give me this chance, I will prove to you myself that I have matured during my time off loka and have become a better person.

Very true but if found via outside sources you are a hypocrite and a liar via this appeal, that you continue to become easily enraged at the slightest mishap what is to say none of this will happen again and that you won't perhaps say these things to a lokan or get angry and grief another town, it seems all too likely, the idea which so many fail to grasp is once you are banned and you appeal it is not should sole X action be forgiven, for example someone calling me a Irish "insert bad word !! " it's have they truly reformed and no longer act in such a manner, because 2 years gone by no problem anyone that called me an irish whatever is welcome back in my books, however if they've continued this pattern they should stay locked up!

I don't know if you're trolling at this point or not. I would have ignored Lurnn being a moron if Cryptite himself didn't prompt Theme to comment on the screenshots. Clearly, these screenshots are on the admins mind, even though they should hold no credence. Until an admin publicly comments on the invalidity of these screenshots, I will maintain my stance.

"You seem to be stuck on this misconception that whether an appeal is accepted or denied solely depends on the original message of the thread"
I have never once believed this- another reason why I decided to reply instead of letting you goons ramble on with irrelevant screenshots. What I will say is that there has not been a single decent rebuttal so far against Vexaay's ban being removed. You seem to have a problem with him responding to screenshots with screenshots, but that only makes him as mature as the original poster (Lurnn). Are you making a point that Vexaay is as mature as Lurnn? Isn't that good for him?

You can cope about me being new and not understanding anything- I 100% believe I am a more competent and unbiased source than you.

You claim to be unbiased where as in the beginning it was "I am not saying any of these screenshots distributed are real/doctored." now sorry for being a bit of a tease but I think I may even know why the sudden switch up to it has to be completely fake!! came from, that would be because Yuval, owner of the server which Vexaay said all those beautiful things to me happened to have invited him, taken away some of my owner permissions to prevent me from viewing audit log and allow vexaay to delete the messages!

Any other questions please let me know! https://imgur.com/a/0SZyxkX here's the original proof for it being Vexaay which is all so clear.

 

[ThePigGang]

"Those screenshots show Vexaay being toxic in a recent timeframe, hence why Lurrn posted them"
Maybe re-read my previous messages, I clearly explain why these messages hold no value. I'm sure Lurnn is plenty smart, he also knows how easy it is to fake these messages. They were posted in an attempt to derail the appeal of someone who has waited a sufficient amount of time; in which case, Lurnn is as mature as Vexaay was.

"At the end of the day its Vexaay appealing his ban so even if Lurrn is being immature (which he isn't), his maturity plays no role"

Here's something you just aren't able to grasp your head around. Despite being a slicer, you are unaware of the expected conduct that comes with the rank. Please read: https://forums.lokamc.com/threads/slicer-rank.3551/
At this point, Vexaay's "most immature" reply can only be scaled to the maturity of a respected Slicer. Is this a problem to you?

 

[monkeynick123ooh]

forums war

 

[glaive7]

I really was content to provide staff with all necessary proof in private, even state so here. Yet I found myself being questioned not only by some new players but actual Lokans who I've known and played alongside for years, which has truly confused me, nonetheless I will clear everything up in this post and hopefully let it be the last, I plan on debunking just about every post on this thread since my last so enjoy!

Let's see what you've got!

They really don't have to trust, I was content leaving this is private with staff as I said and the result of the appeal would have indicated the validity, not to mention vexaays response of actual fake screenshots instead of a real rebuttal made his guilt quite clear, however that is just an implication so yes no need to jump the gun yet I suppose!

Correct, this is just an assumption you've made based on your personal belief that the screenshots you sent are real, and the screenshots Vexaay sent were fake. The rest of us have no need to align our positions with your beliefs, so this is a bunch of nonsense to me.

If the screenshots are deemed valid you still wouldn't see this as an appropriate reason? In a former response you claimed, and I'll quote
"I am not saying any of these screenshots distributed are real/doctored." Have you suddenly determined they certainly are doctored and thus he is innocent?

Absolutely, I would not deem them valid. Even if the messages were real, you haven't even begun to prove whether these messages would be sent by the real Vexaay or someone on his account. Good job. Also, your "bullshit" is the irrelevant screenshots void of any proof you sent. I have not taken a position on whether these messages are real or not, just that you are horrible at reading comprehension.

You've linked a thread which quite literally all explains itself with a year old video, yes the second point by magpieman is completely true and loka stands by this, however you're asking him to blatantly disregard proof that vexaay is not a changed person and allow him back on LOKA this would be him failing to police loka... not the internet, making that point so insufferably invalid and just a terrible reach.
I find it amusing how much you seem to think you know about the staff standard, regardless they certainly can make decisions on those screenshots if they so wish.

Your first point is a strawman, he only referenced the second point of the admins response. If you had real proof Vexaay displays this behaviour, nobody would be disregarding it.

Very true but if found via outside sources you are a hypocrite and a liar via this appeal, that you continue to become easily enraged at the slightest mishap what is to say none of this will happen again and that you won't perhaps say these things to a lokan or get angry and grief another town, it seems all too likely, the idea which so many fail to grasp is once you are banned and you appeal it is not should sole X action be forgiven, for example someone calling me a Irish "insert bad word !! " it's have they truly reformed and no longer act in such a manner, because 2 years gone by no problem anyone that called me an irish whatever is welcome back in my books, however if they've continued this pattern they should stay locked up!

Agreed! Unfortunately, no one has presented proof of such behaviour i.e. more meaningless waflle.

You claim to be unbiased where as in the beginning it was "I am not saying any of these screenshots distributed are real/doctored." now sorry for being a bit of a tease but I think I may even know why the sudden switch up to it has to be completely fake!! came from, that would be because Yuval, owner of the server which Vexaay said all those beautiful things to me happened to have invited him, taken away some of my owner permissions to prevent me from viewing audit log and allow vexaay to delete the messages!

I am unbiased and will remain to be. Provide real evidence or simply don't engage.

Any other questions please let me know! https://imgur.com/a/0SZyxkX here's the original proof for it being Vexaay which is all so clear.

Thanks for providing the proof you sent to the staff. This doesn't debunk anything I've said regarding how you could have possibly faked the messages. The only realistic way to prove they are real is to give Loka staff your login details so they can confirm the messages themselves.

 

[Lurnn]

Thanks for providing the proof you sent to the staff. This doesn't debunk anything I've said regarding how you could have possibly faked the messages. The only realistic way to prove they are real is to give Loka staff your login details so they can confirm the messages themselves.

since im a baller and im chillll like that if they want to they are more than free to do so, however I think they'll be just happy enough with the proof i've provided them this appeal has been dumped on enough ima head to work you have a good life sir

 

[glaive7]

since im a baller and im chillll like that if they want to they are more than free to do so, however I think they'll be just happy enough with the proof i've provided them this appeal has been dumped on enough ima head to work you have a good life sir

I hope they're not satisfied with the current proof. It would mean a serious flaw in the staff's responsibility to uphold evidence.
Anyways, it's been fun talking to you. Hope you have a great day.

 

[Thijs]

-1 always been toxic

 

[Skuhoo]

You can change your DNS settings to reroute a domain to a site u are hosting which seems like the real discord site. Even on the discord app, you could just modify something like better discord (its open source) to make it seem like you arent using a modified discord client. Considering better discord doesnt contact discord server ip addresses directly, dns rerouting would still work.

Fwiw, that's not how things work. What you're describing is a man-in-the-middle attack, but if the internet worked the way you think it does then connecting to any public wifi would be really dangerous since most devices are configured to use the DNS server given by the DHCP server on the network. In truth, nearly all internet traffic and certainly any Discord traffic will be using TLS. You can't just change the IP a domain resolves to because you don't have a valid certificate and the TLS handshake would fail. There's also other technologies like client certificates, certificate pinning, and CAA records that makes what you're suggesting not really possible. The video Lurrn shared was also recorded on iOS which throws out the idea that he could've been using a modified Discord client. Trying to argue that the messages are faked seems like a lost cause to me.

 

[glaive7]

Fwiw, that's not how things work. What you're describing is a man-in-the-middle attack, but if the internet worked the way you think it does then connecting to any public wifi would be really dangerous since most devices are configured to use the DNS server given by the DHCP server on the network. In truth, nearly all internet traffic and certainly any Discord traffic will be using TLS. You can't just change the IP a domain resolves to because you don't have a valid certificate and the TLS handshake would fail. There's also other technologies like client certificates, certificate pinning, and CAA records that makes what you're suggesting not really possible.

Hmm fair enough. Why do you think iOS can't be modified? You will need to jailbreak sure but then wouldn't that be possible? I might be wrong. Video could also have been edited. He could have been token logged and then someone sent the messages on his account. This isn't just pertaining to Vexaay but in general with all users in mind. So many loopholes possible and I can't see why staff would concern themselves with this can of worms. It would make a lot more sense to just base his behaviour off of Loka-community servers to see how he acts. At least then, you can have a proper logging system. Nothing can be taken out of context, and you can confirm everything to be as it is.

 

[koi0001]

I can't see why staff would concern themselves with this can of worms.

Why would we want to unban someone who may be harmful to the community and our player-base if we could avoid it with the proper due diligence.

 

[kiadmowi]

Hmm fair enough. Why do you think iOS can't be modified? You will need to jailbreak sure but then wouldn't that be possible? I might be wrong. Video could also have been edited. He could have been token logged and then someone sent the messages on his account. This isn't just pertaining to Vexaay but in general with all users in mind. So many loopholes possible and I can't see why staff would concern themselves with this can of worms. It would make a lot more sense to just base his behaviour off of Loka-community servers to see how he acts. At least then, you can have a proper logging system. Nothing can be taken out of context, and you can confirm everything to be as it is.

You'd rather jump through 50 hoops to claim Lurrn modified Discord on iOS or became a top-tier video editor to fool Loka staff into keeping Vexaay banned than admit Vexaay might not have conduct worthy of being unbanned.