Alliance Change Idea

[X_Cavator]

There is no balance issue here. Numbers do not matter on this server, skill does because god apples are disabled. Earlier this month me and a couple friends took a 3v11 with east being on the other team. Though we did lose the tgen, we killed every single one of their members and some multiple times. East died in that fight, it is possible to beat him. With this server being very potion pvp skill reliant you can take multiple people at once. Again, it comes down to whether or not you WANT TO WIN. There is no balance issue and the system isn't against you, it's about effort.

 

[Cryptite]

Numbers do not matter on this server, skill does

Not really true. Yes, if you're very good and can take out multiple people, that gives you a better chance of winning fights, but you negated your very point below:

Though we did lose the tgen

.

And that's what winning Conquest is about, not taking out individuals in the battles themselves. You could kill the opposing team 3, 4, 5 times over, but if you lose the actual battles, then you lose the game of Conquest. So it's not about getting kills, it's about completing the objectives.

 

[EastBowmen]

There is no balance issue here. Numbers do not matter on this server, skill does because god apples are disabled. Earlier this month me and a couple friends took a 3v11 with east being on the other team. Though we did lose the tgen, we killed every single one of their members and some multiple times. East died in that fight, it is possible to beat him. With this server being very potion pvp skill reliant you can take multiple people at once. Again, it comes down to whether or not you WANT TO WIN. There is no balance issue and the system isn't against you, it's about effort.

I'd like to mention that I killed ~5 of your guys. I'll take that 5 kd yes pls

 

[X_Cavator]

Not really true. Yes, if you're very good and can take out multiple people, that gives you a better chance of winning fights, but you negated your very point below:

.

And that's what winning Conquest is about, not taking out individuals in the battles themselves. You could kill the opposing team 3, 4, 5 times over, but if you lose the actual battles, then you lose the game of Conquest. So it's not about getting kills, it's about completing the objectives.

You're semi wrong here. Obviously a 3v11 fight is nearly impossible to win as far as objectives, greater numbers takes the tgen down far too quickly. However this is the very first fight I have ever been in on Loka where I was forced to fight 11 people. The fact is numbers like these are very uncommon. Also you are forgetting the mindset people get into when they start to die when they have the numbers advantage. Many people would go on tilt and possibly stop returning to the fight if they just think they're going to die. Obviously numbers do play a role but only to a certain extent.

 

[Jedoi]

If you advertise the Wiki like you do other tips but remove the option to hide it then it would work. Make it clickable to send people to. But first it needs an overhaul. Front page of it should link to mostly everything you need. Section for Town Owners to explain /g commands and all that are available. Section for PvP, explaining those. Lore and Conquest stuff as well to explain the Generators, and the buff/weakness/radar/attack towers.

Wiki's can make or break it, and if it makes it I guarantee people will enjoy the server more and more people will be able to see what we offer before stepping foot in the server.

Grub and I made a plan for The Loka Wikia 2.0, and hopefilly we'll have it done or close to done within a few weeks.

 

[planzorg1]

I don't know why this is a discussion about East, that's not at all what I was originally talking about. I'm saying that the current system of alliances promotes a stale form of stalemate, where no towns really attack each other, and even if you can out strategy these "potion pvpers" then that is still overlooking the fact that there are 2 to 3 other towns in an alliance which can easily launch mass retribution against you. My frustration about this stems from the fact that the server was advertised as PvP, and yet there has been little to no town PvP since I joined. I feel like a lot of people are quick to defend the current system because it is the current system, when there is a good chance of it being flawed.

I'm also going to dispute this being end-game content. It took a week to get into conquest, I understand that you haven't created any early game content yet, but it is entirely possible for towns to attack the larger towns if they weren't stacked in massively favorable alliances. I'm speaking as a new player here, and the general consensus of the server is that you want growth, and yet the server promotes a system that empowers the players who have played here since the early 90's it often feels like. I just want to consider making changes that make encourage active and engaging gameplay, not the 6 month waiting game that seems favored here.

 

[Juujuux]

I don't give a fuck about Potion PvP and how it works. What I do care about is regulars who constantly feed bad information to NEW PLAYERS


No, Carrots do not grow on Ascalon.


This is just one example, I wish I had screenshotted many questions that I asked when I first joined because I was given a ton of information and it has all be proven false. How the fuck is that fair? The wiki is useless, the guides give a little bit of information but you HAVE to ask people to find answers with the way it is currently set up. Don't feed bad information to new players.

 

[Jedoi]

No, Carrots do not grow on Ascalon.

But.... They do....

 

[Hypotemabus]

Carrots also grow on Garama. Best place to get them is the Savannah. They do not grow in the Jungle and a few other Biomes in the south. I am aware that there are a few biomes on other continents in which they grow. But I didn't take a note of which.

 

[Jedoi]

. What I do care about is regulars who constantly feed bad information to NEW PLAYERS

I must have made a mistake, I apologise. I had a carrot farm in the plains of Ascalon for a bit, so I knew they grew there. I didn't know they grew on Garama at all. If I'm correct, originally carrots were only to grow on Ascalon, and Potatoes only on Kalros. That must have changed. Also, I've barely gotten to explore around Garama so I didn't know they grew there as well. I apologise for giving out false information. Next time I will know that they grow in both places.

 

[Juujuux]

I must have made a mistake, I apologise. I had a carrot farm in the plains of Ascalon for a bit, so I knew they grew there. I didn't know they grew on Garama at all. If I'm correct, originally carrots were only to grow on Ascalon, and Potatoes only on Kalros. That must have changed. Also, I've barely gotten to explore around Garama so I didn't know they grew there as well. I apologise for giving out false information. Next time I will know that they grow in both places.

All good, turns out I was wrong too, because it can spawn in the correct biome which may be in ascalon.

Anyways, still giving out bad information has been a CONSISTENT problem since I joined. Being told bad information but going off it, wasting hours of our time, and just making us frustrated. That is how you kill potential new players

 

[Cryptite]

Anyways, still giving out bad information has been a CONSISTENT problem since I joined. Being told bad information but going off it, wasting hours of our time, and just making us frustrated. That is how you kill potential new players

Fair enough. It was mentioned earlier that a couple players have endeavored to overhaul the Wiki soon, so that will be of help.

Off the top of your head, though, could you list out what information you wanted to know or were misinformed about so we can prioritize it?

 

[Juujuux]

Fair enough. It was mentioned earlier that a couple players have endeavored to overhaul the Wiki soon, so that will be of help.

Off the top of your head, though, could you list out what information you wanted to know or were misinformed about so we can prioritize it?

Ocean biome territory generators, territory generators Y axis requirement, proper distances from generators, "solid ground throughout" we were told we had to build from bottom of the ocean, then after told we only had to build it 4 deep. Things like that which take up a lot of time but aren't difficult will make people want to leave... It made me want to, but Planzorg kept yelling at me to give it a chance

 

[EastBowmen]

I heard from Magpieman that carrots grow in certain biomes, rather than continents. Don't take my word for it, but that's the rumor going round town

 

[Wolfegger]

For the record, some of the information about what grows where was never told to us; it was meant to be discovered. We learned a lot, but there are gaps in our knowledge. It is a challenge. We who were committed to Loka before this new world started were willing to deal with that, but I can see how new players might be turned off by it.

Also, I don't think I've seen anybody deliberately misinforming a new player. That is not a thing here. Peace.

 

[Ajaxan]

Just read the entire thread and being a still very new player I tend to agree with Juujuux on many things. This for example:

Look at it from a different point of view. You are new, just joined a server, just starting your town. Notice these enormous super powers, then they attack you for "building on sacred ground". Guess how quickly that could have pushed us away had I not seen the chat notification?

For those familiar with all the mobile empire building games on your phone, things like Game of war, Clash of Kings, etc. Loka has many of the elements of that game play style. One of the biggest problems with those games is that after about a month or so, the top players and alliances are completely beyond the new players that join. They simply can't ever catch up fast enough before being crushed back down. Because Loka gives players the ability to improve over a very long period of time it means that the veterans have an absolute and total advantage over the new players.

Now unfortunately, I don't know what can be done to make this problem completely go away. And as a matter of fact, its not a bad thing to think that it veterans should have an advantage. If a player or town has that much work put into it a new players should have to work their ass off to catch up. Despite this, servers tend to have a hard time unless they can draw in new players. So having the game me more geared towards giving newbies the advantage is actually to the benefit of the server as a whole.

Anyway, it may seem unrelated to everything i just said but I also believe the territory size of towns should have a much lower cap on it. 10-15 generators should be all a town needs. Also, towns should be limited to 15-20 members and alliances 5 towns. In general this will help limit the "superpower" feel new players get when they see the map.

This is a point from planzorg1 that I also found was very interesting:

My frustration about this stems from the fact that the server was advertised as PvP, and yet there has been little to no town PvP since I joined.

As I mentioned above this server does fit into the style of gameplay you'd find in mobile empire building games. In those games you'll find that while everyone establishes their towns and and starts to build up there is very little fighting because people are more interested in getting powerful and establishing their claim. After they get bored though they begin to bicker and yes, the top alliances then butt heads and beat the crap out of each other. It always happen but given that instead of simply clicking a button to upgrade a town (mobile game), and instead having to build each block of it, the initial build up stage will be extended much longer.

So in general if you are looking for your PvP fix, log out, join me on mineplex or something for some mini games then we can come back to loka where I feel our creations and actions actually matter to the community. XD As many of you can probably relate, one of the best parts of loka is being part of a community.

Anyway, yeah, loka isn't going to have as much pvp as you may want.When you do engage in pvp on loka, though, I'd bet it'll get your blood pumping much harder than some random minigames or the like you might find else where.

And the last thing I'd like to address:

It's very hard to criticize anything on this server as a new player. In this thread I've seen some new players trying to point out some frustrations they've had and seeing the community of loka ganging up on them and more or less telling them why their point doesn't matter. I've felt that way on occasion too. Now I understand that you can't bend to the will of any new player just because they have complaints, that'd be crazy. It does feel like the community in general gives them the message that their ideas don't matter though and that they are wrong for thinking it should be any different.

If you have a player no matter how new signing up on the forums and posting you've probably found a very good player who would be a great asset to the community. Pushing them to the side just because they are new is not a good way to make them want to stay especially when these players are actively trying to be a part of the community. So just watch what you say members of Loka, us newbies have good ideas and points too and we don't like to be pushed to the side.

Alrighty have fun with that wall of text, see y'all tonight.

 

[Cryptite]

us newbies have good ideas and points too

That's absolutely true! However, to play devil's advocate, the newbies also have no idea the history of the progress made towards the current system. They aren't always aware that many things are the way they are due to months, even years of improving the system.

Rest assured, when anybody new signs up for the forums and posts an informative, thought out criticism of the server, we all read it and take it very seriously. As an example, within a few days of this thread even being made, we've already made a big change to strength calculation that effectively makes bigger territory-owners weaker if they don't protect their lands, thereby giving attackers bigger wins despite their size.

Many changes to Loka don't happen until we notice its a problem and not everyone speaks up about it. Conquest isn't perfect and it's constantly being tuned. Systems on Loka are usually polished proportional to their usage; whenever Conquest gets a big jump in use, we start to look at that. Until fairly recently, Conquest battles had been going but they'd been between long-time server veterans who just kind of accepted the status quo. Those who come to challenge it like in this thread can produce positive change for the server.

 

[MrAlchemy]

It's very hard to criticize anything on this server as a new player. In this thread I've seen some new players trying to point out some frustrations they've had and seeing the community of loka ganging up on them and more or less telling them why their point doesn't matter. I've felt that way on occasion too. Now I understand that you can't bend to the will of any new player just because they have complaints, that'd be crazy. It does feel like the community in general gives them the message that their ideas don't matter though and that they are wrong for thinking it should be any different.

If you have a player no matter how new signing up on the forums and posting you've probably found a very good player who would be a great asset to the community. Pushing them to the side just because they are new is not a good way to make them want to stay especially when these players are actively trying to be a part of the community. So just watch what you say members of Loka, us newbies have good ideas and points too and we don't like to be pushed to the side.

Hoping that I'm not one who has fallen into practice of dismissing or showing apathy to newer players and their ideas/concerns... I do know that even with information being hard to find or correctly representative of how things really work on the new Loka, you can thrive and survive.

Things are very much new for all of us Lokans, old and new. You know the saying "Old habits die hard"? Well that resonates rather heavy in this instance. Older players dont have a leg up on the newer ones when it comes to understanding this new Loka, as most everything we had become accustomed to has changed completely!

There are a few pipelines of thought that I will not empathize with:

Example 1:
Problem: Told that you could grow carrots where you are, but upon experimentation you find that the information was a lie (or the person sharing the information was misinformed).
Solution: Find what you can grow and go in that direction!
NOT a Solution: Try and change the server to compliment your situation, instead of adapting.

Example 2:
Problem: Seeing a massive force that perceivably is undefeatable in size.
Solution: Work to grow your forces and ally with neighbors to compete or dominate.
NOT a Solution: Try and change the server to compliment your situation, instead of adapting.

Etc etc etc. Essentially I'm talking about those who cry foul when things arent ideal for them and attempt to create criticisms about the server when they should be self directed in their lack of adaptation/hardwork.

The key to Loka is adaptation both on the players end, and the server itself. Elasticity is one of our greatest strengths but it can be a weakness too. Things on Loka are changing faster than ever before, and with each subsequent update things will continue to change for the better!

DISCLAIMER: I'm not an admin, and choose not to be. These are my opinions and do not reflect the views of Loka or it's Owners/Admins. Do not flame Loka or it's dedicated staff because I have posted this, please direct all anger towards Preksak.

 

[planzorg1]

I think the major disconnect new players are having with talking about issues with older players is interpreting our frustration. When I gather 10 stacks of carrots to start a farm and find out I can't plant them, in that moment I'm going to be frustrated. The same goes for when I can't attack a large alliance without having to jump some major hurdles. The misinterpretation comes from the fact with small things people get over it very quickly (and I think we would not be anywhere near as frustrated if it was clear that information was supposed to be discovered by the player, not the wiki, which I can understand), but when it comes to major gameplay balances that lead to stale server dynamics, that where I think issues arise. Right now, my town is constantly building, but as we complete everything and totally gear up, our interest could wane. This is a problem that players can face where there is no endgame content, because the warfare that is present in Loka isn't dynamic. I fully believe in my capability to deal with overcoming the large alliances, but I consider myself the exception. Newer players may just look at this and leave the server, or just join the two alliances, wanting to go with the flow and continuing the stalemate.

 

[Wolfegger]

Please don't feel ganged up on. Your voices are well worth hearing out. Many of us share some of your experiences. Over a month ago, I tried to build a t-gen in a river, laying four layers of blocks, and I found out the hard way that it didn't work (I was not too put off, as I had set upon the task like an experiment). As this new world was started, there were some issues that arose, but most of us were aware that the people who created it put in a heck of a lot of time (and many doses of greatness ). They have done a great job. Hats off to them.

I anticipate that many of your concerns will be resolved down the road (sooner rather than later); others have voiced similar things here and there, and Cryptite and the Mods (great band name) have responded so well. Check out the Artifact Update thread to see a glimpse of some of the work that they do in this regard.