Implemented Bleed Mod Nerf

[MasonMcBadbat]

Hi there,

The black module that spawns bedrock on the ground causing bleed for the enemy is a bit much. The bleed goes on for a pretty long time and the 1 heart per tick alone is enough to spam these mods on all T-gens, not to mention it also works as a buff for the team using it. So maybe a nerf is in order. Could reduce the damage, remove the heal effects, lower duration, lots of things. Thanks for the read!

 

[jmeatball]

I agree. Even though its my side using this the most, I feel it does in some ways take away from the true pvp aspect a little bit. I think the regen should be nerfed, and maybe the damage should be cut down by a few seconds, but all around its a good mod.
+1

 

[Jammin_Mas]

Seeing that we have replaced this module from weakness. I personally see it’s fine. I’m sure your posting this due to last nights fight, but keep in mind how bad the terrain was and how it prevented you from getting out.

I’ve been on both sides of the module, personally I had trouble in our first couple of attacks on zorros (they had two of them) however the thing I found was you need to commit fully to your push. That being said I do think that the fact the defenders get regen from the module is a bit op. So I don’t think the damage needs to get nerfed but the effect is has on the defenders does.

 

[ModernMozart1787]

Seems op. Pls nerf. +1

 

[NovaSolux]

No, The Lingering Death module is just fine.
It dosen't need any nerfs.
I believe your just suggesting this because of a fight that happaned.
-1

 

[Jammin_Mas]

Seems op. Pls nerf. +1

There always will be a “op” module that defenders use to get the help they deserve during the fight. In my opinion I’d rather plow into this current module than the weakness one we had before.

 

[Obstinance]

I never really comment on forums because most of them aren't of actual importance, but I made a forums account for this matter. Bleeding does have a battle altering affect on fights in an even worse way that weakness did. If this module was going to be added along with slow III, redoing modules to balance them was pointless. This module buffs the users and has a large area of effect and paired with slowness III makes it impossible to get close to the tgen especially if the enemy outnumbers you. However even in even fights the defenders would definitely win under most circumstances. The damage bleeding has in insane as well. I feel if there isn't going to be a nerf for this module, you shouldn't be allowed to put it on your tgen in conjunction with slowness and you shouldn't be able to have multiple either (not sure if you can have more than one already). In conclusion my ideas are; 1. Don't allow it to be used with slowness and nerf damage a little 2. Don't allow more than one of them on tgens and nerf the damage a little and keep the area of effect the same 3. Allow 2 on tgens and nerf damage and area of effect and if it's still allowed to be used with slowness reduce slowness from slow III because I think that's quite excessive and defending should still require some skill on the defenders part and the modules shouldn't do all the work. Obviously this is just my opinion on the modules and everyone has their own, this will be the only comment I'm making on this matter. If you want to speak further please message me on discord and don't @ me, thank you. PS. The only votes to keep the module the same are the ones from people who need the module as is to win. The votes to change the module come from people who have fought and against it and won and people who have lost, and some people who haven't fought against it at all. Even an upvote from someone who prospers from the module.

+1 to changing/nerfing

I don't know how this +1 -1 stuff works

 

[TimeCentaur]

There always will be a “op” module that defenders use to get the help they deserve during the fight. In my opinion I’d rather plow into this current module than the weakness one we had before.

Honestly I would prefer Weakness. Weakness made fighting bland but this just makes it almost unplayable at times.

 

[MasonMcBadbat]

No, The Lingering Death module is just fine.
It dosen't need any nerfs.
I believe your just suggesting this because of a fight that happaned.
-1

I figured it was implied that I brought this up due to the most recent battle. Gotta play against it to realize it needs some nerfing my guy.

 

[Steve5729]

I'd say that the bleed is actually really easy to avoid, but i will say that yeah it does a lot of damage. Keep the moduel and keep that it gives us regen just make bleeding do a little less damage or make it a little shorter in effect length. (although anything more than this just sounds like the sLoWnEsS iS bRoKeN thread Malen made.)

EDIT: Yes I put make it worse but only for the memes. Ok guys? calm down.

 

[ColdPepsi]

Well, I made my account just so for this post. That said lets get one thing out of the way before I make some points on my thoughts.

Am I saying there should be a nerf due to the recent fight?
Yes for me. Only Me. For this was one of the first few fights where I had to deal with three modules. Though don't be mistaken that "one fight" can undermine the rest of the argument. If a single fight is able cause a forum post and some discussion. Then there's a reason. @nova

Thoughts
I would say the idea of a bleed style module is actually quite interesting. The idea of forcing your opponents to take an alternate route and having some positions that you may be able to hold off, to me is quite interesting. Though until you account for the damage it could do, by itself and with the enemy players hitting you. Then it doesn't seem great. Alongside with space it takes on the field and the amount of modules you can have; which most will go with three bleed modules. Then the problems seem clear for the attacking side. I don't think its bad enough for a remove, but limits will be needed along with other nerfs.

First things I noticed is that, the player fights were iffy and not that great. I feel like it limits the pvp for players, due to inability of the attacking side to push without giving all their forces in one push for probably one module or maybe two depending on the timing of reinforcements. I guess you could say this "helps pvp" for arches; to survive longer, but the current standing of the module heavily brings down the attacking side. Even with one module only. Its also quite tedious to deal with a bleed module and players at the same time. Ex. There was several deaths on the defensive side, and the attacking side was still not able to push even while outnumbering them. To be fair the whole terrain wasn't the best for the attacking only allowing one way really, but that still shouldn't allow such a thing to happen.

Its really offsetting and again, it breaks the balance of ability and power. An example would be if there was an equal amount of players with equal skill, with good flat ground. If there was no defensive modules it should be a fair fight. Then if there were defensive modules it should only slightly benefit the defensive side. I feel like the attacking side should still be able to fight without being pushed down too much and would have to adapt, but not nearly that much.

Some things I would suggest would be: to limit the amount of bleed modules to two, a time nerf, damage nerf, and maybe less radius area. I don't believe we should nerf slowness just because of a different module. Maybe a different brighter color, or such, a set location, removing the buff. (Note: I'm not saying it has to go through all of these, these are just suggestions. Just small nerfs are fine ) Or we can set to One module only and test it out from there.

Even though I might not have the most experience with the bleed module, Going against it didn't feel great.

Thanks for reading, though my thoughts were all over the place, you'll get the general Idea.

+1 for nerf.

 

[ArcherSquid]

+1 - I feel like everything has been said in the posts above

 

[Nationalistic]

Add bandages!!!!!


I've never seen this module in action (guess why xDxDxD) but I've watched a few loka vids where people get low in a matter of seconds because of this module so I'd give it a fat +1 for nerf

 

[TimeCentaur]

Add bandages!!!!!


I've never seen this module in action (guess why xDxDxD) but I've watched a few loka vids where people get low in a matter of seconds because of this module so I'd give it a fat +1 for nerf

xD

 

[Magpieman]

There are some good points in this thread. Up to this point the new modules have not really been under heavy testing, so balance was never going to be spot on.

The main idea behind the design on this module was to force players to fight in different areas of the battleground and almost have safe zones to run into as the defender. With it firing constantly, and changing where these zones are, it creates an ever changing battlefield that you have to adapt to.

Due to this I feel the biggest issue is the number of these modules you are able to place on a Tgen. Reducing it to 1 and still keeping the damage relevant should keep its original design intact and make for interesting, dynamic fights.

The other possible issue is the combination of this module with slowness. The original slowness design was for it to be weak on its own, but in combination with certain modules, it would be a lot stronger. This way players would have to think carefully about which modules to combo with which. While I still don't think we have enough data on it, it does appear that the slowness module is a bit stonger than we would like.

The suggested change to damage is not one I am very keen on. If the damage is lowered a lot and we allow up to 4 on Tgens then there is a much smaller risk of running into one of these zones which renders it fairly pointless/just a small damage tick on opponents. It should be punishing to run into a big flashing area on the ground that says don't step on me. You should need to pay attention to Gen defences like golems and this module, not just the guy you are trying to chase down and kill. Objectives are just as important as the PvP itself.

A final thought is perhaps splitting the module into two. Remove the buff from lingering death and keep it dealing damage. Then create a new module with a similar effect but only provides defenders a buff and deals no damage.

The thing to remember is we don't just want balance, we want the module to add an interesting and different dynamic too. We want both. Keep the discussion going, as I say some very well put arguments so far.

 

[Steve5729]

There are some good points in this thread. Up to this point the new modules have not really been under heavy testing, so balance was never going to be spot on.

The main idea behind the design on this module was to force players to fight in different areas of the battleground and almost have safe zones to run into as the defender. With it firing constantly, and changing where these zones are, it creates an ever changing battlefield that you have to adapt to.

Due to this I feel the biggest issue is the number of these modules you are able to place on a Tgen. Reducing it to 1 and still keeping the damage relevant should keep its original design intact and make for interesting, dynamic fights.

The other possible issue is the combination of this module with slowness. The original slowness design was for it to be weak on its own, but in combination with certain modules, it would be a lot stronger. This way players would have to think carefully about which modules to combo with which. While I still don't think we have enough data on it, it does appear that the slowness module is a bit stonger than we would like.

The suggested change to damage is not one I am very keen on. If the damage is lowered a lot and we allow up to 4 on Tgens then there is a much smaller risk of running into one of these zones which renders it fairly pointless/just a small damage tick on opponents. It should be punishing to run into a big flashing area on the ground that says don't step on me. You should need to pay attention to Gen defences like golems and this module, not just the guy you are trying to chase down and kill. Objectives are just as important as the PvP itself.

A final thought is perhaps splitting the module into two. Remove the buff from lingering death and keep it dealing damage. Then create a new module with a similar effect but only provides defenders a buff and deals no damage.

The thing to remember is we don't just want balance, we want the module to add an interesting and different dynamic too. We want both. Keep the discussion going, as I say some very well put arguments so far.

Since the general vote seems to be a Nerf, could we make a straw poll on how to nerf it?

 

[DeceitfulPear]

I think having a better "/c train" will make discussions like this easier to have. I remember Crypt mentioning having multiple terrains based on real tiles, better kits, and an all around more realistic conquest experience. Will make things easier to test without people having to worry about strength and as a community we could do our own testings to see what may/may not really be an issue and come up with ideas on how to fix them

 

[ArcherSquid]

The only ways I can see this being nerfed but still used is to either only give the bleed effect when standing on the bedrock, or make the bleed effect shorter. I believe its 10 seconds that you get the effect for just standing on a block

 

[ColdPepsi]

I think the damage lasts 8 or 7 seconds with it being a heart a second. (It would be nice if we could have information on it.)

I think the goal for the module would be to leave it as an area that you wouldn't want to go in, but still allow you to have the chance of escaping before the defending players could get to you. It should change the way players should have to deal with the environment without taking too much from the battlte and time.

My Ideal Bleed Module
I think it could lose a second (Though I think its fine as how it is), with that being the max of the damage being cut - due to how lowering the damage would remove the actual purpose and design of the module. I also think the buff needs to be removed and put as a separate area module. A limit of 2 modules would be nice if a buff an area buff module becomes a thing. Due to how a buff area module would change the way players would play - creating a similar effect.

Lazy People Read Here
-Have damage as 7 seconds (or 6 seconds if people want it)
-Remove buff
-Have limit of 2 modules / if a buff area module is made. (2 would be nice in general but no clue how useful it would be like that. Better to find out with 3 and change if we have to.)

 

[Qfu]

From my experience this module definitely needs to be nerfed, during the 5v16 against Seagulls, I potted more from the bleeding than the actual players. Many times we’d get close to kill someone and a whole group rushes towards a giant pile of the ‘bleeding zone’, and just spam bow us. Cant imagine the number of times I wouldve died from random piles just spawning right under me the moment I go anywhere near.
Pls Nerf +++++1