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Complaint - Kaphox Radar Report and Screenshare Avoidance.

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Walkers

Member
June 17th, 2018
  • To add to that, Walkers managed to record the fight in question. The video is viewable here:
    .
  • This post has been created collaboratively by leaders of The Elysian Pact.
The Incident:
Approximately 5 minutes into the battle, Walkers was situated in a tree away from view of people, he was invisible (but still wearing armor). Walkers spotted Kaphox walking around the tree attempting to hide that he could clearly see Walkers, before dropping down to him and then engaging him. The combination of these facts: 1) that Walkers was hiding out of sight, 2) invisible (though still wearing armor), and 3) Kaphox’s suspicious circling of his location, before attacking, led Walkers to believe that Kaphox may be using some sort of radar or map that reveals player locations. Incidentally, Magpieman, was in the voice chat with us when this occurred, and Walkers asked him if Kaphox could be screenshared. During this point, a few screenshots (Pictures 1-4) were revealed from Malen that highlighted previous suspicions that Kaphox had been using a radar in previous fights, including one where Malen directly confronted Kaphox, but appeared to act as if he did not understand what Malen was saying. Magpieman conceded that if Walkers had a high degree of confidence that Kaphox may be using something, they could screenshare him. As a result, Kaphox was messaged to not log off the server by Skuhoo, 18 seconds later Kaphox disconnected from the server. After some conversation, Kaphox mentioned that he was going to sleep. For those who know Kaphox this is very early for his usual sleep schedule. The next day Kaphox was hidden/showing as offline on Discord/Steam, which is very unusual for him, as he normally is around playing games (and in fact he was). Obviously this could be accredited to a myriad of reasons, but the timing is oddly coincidental. The suspicion is only compounded when one considers that as of the writing of this document, (June 17th, 2018 at 2:52pm EST - 5 days), Kaphox has still not logged back on to Loka. Something that, again, most who know him would agree, is quite odd.

The Administration’s Reaction:
Following the events of the 12th, Magpieman met in a voice chat with Malen and a few of us to go over the process of screen sharing with what was thought to be the intent to force Kaphox to be screenshared on the 13th. To our knowledge this has not happened. Bearing that in mind, Walkers confronted Cryptite to try to figure out what was going on, and something problematic came of it. The first issue revolves around this (Picture 5):

[18:48] Cryptite: We failed to have a freeze command for this circumstance; that's on us
[18:59] Cryptite: We're not banning him because we failed to freeze/ss him

The problem we see with this is that Cryptite’s reasoning here is not an adequate justification to not punish players in the context of this situation. Sadly, the reality is you cannot allow excuses for such a thing. There is no proof that they did not see the message telling them to not log off and thus could be avoiding it. In actuality, all that can be seen is the fact that Kaphox was told not to log out and he did so 20 seconds after. Plenty of time to see the message and go "oh no what do I do," and then log. If you allow excuses once, then you have to keep allowing them, at which point it then becomes elementary to avoid a screen share by saying 'oh I didn't see' or 'oh there's a storm, sorry' (an excuse that was accepted by the administration) and etc. Yes, the server has failed to implement a plugin that freezes and alerts players to such a thing, but the server continues to fail if nothing is followed up on shortly, or if they tell players to get over their concerns rather than discuss them. As soon as someone logs out, they can start removing/hiding most if not all evidence of foul play. Lastly, this is arguably irrelevant to Kaphox’s situation. Having a freeze command would not necessarily have prevented him from logging out (if we are to believe he closed his Minecraft without paying attention or to avoid a screen share). In which case, we are back to the same problem. In addition to the above comments, we took issue with the following mentality:

[18:54] Cryptite: Kaph will either continue to hack and get caught and be banned
[18:54] Cryptite: or he will stop hacking and, great, now he's not a hacker anymore
[18:54] Cryptite: or he won't come on Loka anymore
[18:54] Cryptite: and then he'll also not be an issue

These few lines can practically be summed up in this: “if he doesn’t log on then it isn’t a problem.” In a few words, this is a horrendous mentality and practice. First, how do you say that to the community that is negatively affected by the player’s actions (speaking in a more general scope)? Enforcement of rules and follow-through with punishments builds trust with the community and gives them faith in that server’s ability to be run successfully and in a healthy way. The lack of that disappoints players and leads them to believe that either the administration does not care or that they cannot be trusted, in some cases both. In either case, it ultimately causes players to move on to other servers. On top of that, if that person in question does end up coming back, who is to say that the administration will: 1) then issue a punishment and 2) be able to find anything incriminating if they then decide to do a screen share. This entire situation has been made that much more unpredictable and, frankly, worse, by the decision to do nothing.

Request:
Kaphox should be screenshared, all relevant files and folders inspected. If any of his files/folders were updated since logging, he needs to explain why they were changed, as Kaphox was attempting to appear offline since this incident he had no reason to change anything related to Minecraft so none of this should be an issue if all is well. If this is not done, the administration should recognize that regardless of whether or not there was a freeze command, a screen share was blatantly avoided and it is common practice for that to result in a punishment equivalent to not passing a screen share.

Why did we spend 2 days writing this?
There are two reasons for this post. As has already been elaborated above, to rectify the administration’s failure to act in any way shape or form to enforce a very clear practice in a situation that demanded it. This is especially necessary given that Kaphox is now a member of the staff himself. Staff members should and must always be held to a higher standard than regular players. Loka has a history of retroactively enforcing rules and this case is absolutely no reason for exception. Consistent courses of action must be taken. The second reason is to highlight this specific issue. There is a habit of “preparing for the future” instead of acting when it is most required. It is our hope that this post will bring that to light and push the administration to do what is in Loka’s best interest.
  • Walkers
  • Sparky___
  • DeceitfulPear
  • Xlan
  • Malen
  • ArcherSquid
 
I don’t really get the point of this post tbh, maybe I missed a point or something but I don’t really get what this post is exactly asking for
 

RedSkilZZ

Active Member
Guardian
Just three things to point out with your report:

1) You say yourself that you have no evidence

2) Kaph being offline is neither suspicious nor a reason to ban him. It may be hard to believe but people have lives besides Minecraft ;p

While yes he may run at people for kills (not that most people don't) it seems your intentions are simply to ban a player you feel betrayed you. After all, you did the same with Lytei. It was a TGen fight, people are looking for kills especially right at the start of the fight or when you TP back. But to sum it up, him pearling and searching in the trees (in a forest biome) doesn't seem sus to me.
 
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Just three things to point out with your report:

1) You seem to still be upset by the fact that Kaph left EP for SH and want to ruin his rep etc. (as highlighted in the part where you say if you get him banned his opportunity to be staff will be ruined)

2) You say yourself that you have no evidence

3) Kaph being offline is neither suspicious nor a reason to ban him. It may be hard to believe but people have lives besides Minecraft ;p

While yes he may run at people for kills (not that most people don't) it seems your intentions are simply to ban a player you feel betrayed you. After all, you did the same with Lytei. It was a TGen fight, people are looking for kills especially right at the start of the fight or when you TP back. But to sum it up, him pearling and searching in the trees (in a forest biome) doesn't seem sus to me.
I 100% agree, as someone who also was hit with fake accusations after leaving Valinor, I think we should be considering the fact that Kaph left EP for Iblis.
 

Jammin_Mas

Well-Known Member
Slicer
There is alot said inside this complaint but I would like to just put my opinions as an active Player on the matter.

I've always valued loka and held it to a high standard of other minecraft servers due to their respect and value for each player. I have been on 100 person servers simmilar to loka and the server owner/admins don't even know who half their active players. This amazes me because staff on loka, (especially Crypt and Mag) know almost every active player on loka is by heart and can even recall some of lokas first players off the top of their heads. It is this value in their player base that in my mind allows loka to have a very unique punishment/ban system, basically giving all these players a second chance. I'm not sure of any server that gives its players a second chance after Hacking, Xray, and other significant offenses but I highly respect lokas ideals as I truly believe everyone should get a second chance.

How does this relate to Kaph?
Even if Kaph was hacking or using illegal mods (I do not believe he was), my point is that he would not have been permanently banned, which is what I feel like this post is trying to aim for; besides drama. Do you really think someone who was planning to become a part of the staff team and has donated so much to loka would do something like this aswell? I personally don't.
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Another thing that is blatantly obvious is the fact that Cryptite himself said that this case was over and to drop it. This is not just a member of lokas great staff team whos decision you are trying to "expose" or complain, this is the Server Owner. Keep in mind it is up to him as the person who owns the server to make decisions. I feel like him telling you to drop it should have stopped it there.
Consistent courses of action must be taken. The second reason is to highlight this specific issue. There is a habit of “preparing for the future” instead of acting when it is most required. It is our hope that this post will bring that to light and push the administration to do what is in Loka’s best interest.​
In this bit from your post you are also once again going back on what I touched above by not listening to the high staff. They told you to close it and here you say "do what is in lokas best interest." Crypt did that by telling you to let it go, I'm not sure why you kept going. And connecting this incident to flea, cmon man this incident and fleas were polar opposites.
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Finally I feel you Walkers. I know we have been enemies but there has been countless times where like you I felt these "spam clickers turned pvp gods" were using some sort of kill aura and hacks, but I realized that it had to do with my personal Bias than anything else. I infact used to be super suspicious about horsia and thought everyone of them hacked, which has since been erased once I got to know them. I can also connect similarly to your tree incident as I had one with Jib back when I was in miracalis when he also found me similarly inside of a tree. My point is incidents like this happen, do you know if Kaph had a similar texture pack as yours; it obviously allowed you to see through leaves, maybe it was the same kind kaph had. Another thing is that this is not a recent incident as you are using discord messages from May to support your cause. Keep in mind that Malen is not on lokas staff team as well and that kaph in my mind was truthful in malens PM to attempt to get information out of him.

As a player I'm disappointing in this forum post. Not only are you degrading the staff of loka but in my mind trying to create forum drama as well which is another aspect of loka I been a proud part in keeping drama free. Unless you get a time machine and go back to the incident this case is as crypt said; Its going nowhere.
 

MasonMcBadbat

Well-Known Member
Slicer
To brush this off as Pact trying to get back at Kaph doesn't counter their argument here. If anything it paints the accuser as less credible because of their town of origin and that's not how a legitimate judgement system works.
It looks like there was enough content that a SS was called for, and Sku did what he could to follow that protocol until the suspect in question broke the protocol by logging off after specifically being told not to. That seems like an easy call that they failed the SS test. While the appropriate action is a ban for failed SS test, there's obviously some complications that warrant some investigation, which is all this post is asking under the request section.
 

RedSkilZZ

Active Member
Guardian
To brush this off as Pact trying to get back at Kaph doesn't counter their argument here. If anything it paints the accuser as less credible because of their town of origin and that's not how a legitimate judgement system works.
I'm simply pointing out that Lytei encountered much the same scrutiny from the pact leaders when he left (which also turned out to be nothing). In fact I would argue that the fact that the pact leaders left it up till now (not while Kaph was still in EP) to report Kaph shows where their allegiance lies.
 

Walkers

Member
I'm simply pointing out that Lytei encountered much the same scrutiny from the pact leaders when he left (which also turned out to be nothing). In fact I would argue that the fact that the pact leaders left it up till now (not while Kaph was still in EP) to report Kaph shows where their allegiance lies.
This complaint arised from an incident where EP and Iblis were fighting, this was one of the first times most of us would've fought against Kaphox. This was not left until now because of bias, this is a post quite clearly referencing a recent incident as shown by the evidence you seem to be ignoring.
 

DeceitfulPear

Well-Known Member
Guardian
Writing this from my phone so sorry for horrible formatting/typos

A main concern would be allowing the avoidance of screensharing. To me this situation isn’t about Kaph at all but about the apparent inaction that has come from these events. On most other servers that involve competitive PvP, if you are messaged by staff to not log out (for reasons of screen sharing) and you do... well that’s kinda it. You get punished.

Now why is that how most servers function? Well the reason is because you can just come up with any excuse you want to get away from the situation for however long you need to hide any potential evidence you can find. Is this always the case? No. But if you give any leeway then you leave that door open to people who actually are hacking to abuse.

All of this was stated in the OP and it’s personally the one point I care about the most. Would like to hear about how exactly such things are punished/viewed currently and if they are planned to change once a freeze plugin is implemented.

(It will take a few hours for me to be able to respond more if I’m needed)
 

RedSkilZZ

Active Member
Guardian
This complaint arose from an incident where EP and Iblis were fighting
Yes, it was the first time you were fighting Kaph, however (assuming you don't live in the future) you had suspicions far before Kaph left (specifically highlighted when Malen messaged Archer on 05/09/2018). Your inaction to report him and not ruin his reputation until he left EP shows why your jumping to the conclusion that Kaph is hacking without providing solid evidence of such actions. Once again, as you said yourself, you don't have evidence of him hacking in PMs with Crypt.

If your main issue is 'inaction' by the staff team this 'report' should be placed in suggestions where you offer a solution to the problem that you're describing.
 

Sparky___

Well-Known Member
Slicer
Apologies to all, it may take us a while to respond to everybody's points, but we will try to do our best. I will try to tackle what has been said already. Likewise, we meant to include this picture with the album, but as a result of my incessant editing, I left it out on accident. https://gyazo.com/1f43de57eb13d73487000382b68b7bc4 This picture just shows where and what the proof is in regards to the 18 seconds logging thingy.

Anyways, let's begin!


1) You seem to still be upset by the fact that Kaph left EP for SH and want to ruin his rep etc. (as highlighted in the part where you say if you get him banned his opportunity to be staff will be ruined)

First and foremost, while we were upset Kaph left us it is not the reasoning behind this complaint, as proved by the supporting evidence, this is not a random issue fueled by salt. We have spent days, literal real life days, mulling over this issue and we sincerely believe that this is a significant issue among Loka's administration. If you don't wish to take it seriously, then ignore the post.What you pointed out was a concern that ArcherSquid had made (prior to Kaph leaving our alliance). It was made as a genuine concern that he didn’t want Kaphox to miss out on that opportunity, highlighting that he believed he would be an asset to Loka. It is not an indication that any one of us wants to harm his reputation.

2) You say yourself that you have no evidence

We do not have evidence in the form of a screenshare of Kaph using radar but we (and admins) have clear proof he left after being asked for a screenshare, as well as further ‘hiding’ after the fact. If people can just avoid screenshares then this sets a dangerous precedent where people know they can easily get away with less obvious hacks such as radar.

3) Kaph being offline is neither suspicious nor a reason to ban him. It may be hard to believe but people have lives besides Minecraft

This is incorrect. A lack of activity from an otherwise incredibly active member among the Loka community immediately after being alerted to suspicions that he might be hacking is clear reason to be suspicious.

Even if Kaph was hacking or using illegal mods (I do not believe he was), my point is that he would not have been permanently banned, which is what I feel like this post is trying to aim for; besides drama.

We are not necessarily aiming to have him permanently banned. What we are intending is simple:
to rectify the administration’s failure to act in any way shape or form to enforce a very clear practice in a situation that demanded it....Consistent courses of action must be taken. The second reason is to highlight this specific issue. There is a habit of “preparing for the future” instead of acting when it is most required. It is our hope that this post will bring that to light and push the administration to do what is in Loka’s best interest.

Another thing that is blatantly obvious is the fact that Cryptite himself said that this case was over and to drop it. This is not just a member of lokas great staff team whos decision you are trying to "expose" or complain, this is the Server Owner. Keep in mind it is up to him as the person who owns the server to make decisions. I feel like him telling you to drop it should have stopped it there.

This is potentially accurate, however, while we feel that Cryptite is entitled to run the server however he feels fit, we believe we are equally entitled to provide suggestions and helpful feedback to make Loka even better than it already is. We care about Loka a great deal and we think this issue in particular needs to be discussed, even if Cryptite doesn’t.

In fact I would argue that the fact that the pact leaders left it up till now (not while Kaph was still in EP) to report Kaph shows where their allegiance lies.

This is a very valid concern to bring up. The only people aware of the concerns about Kaph prior to this incident were Malen, Inapplicable, and ArcherSquid. This information was never forwarded to the rest of the leaders, because of the result of the conversations Malen had with others. It’s entirely reasonable to say that this was failure on our part to do our part for the Lokan Community, but it does not nullify the importance of this post in any way.
 

RedSkilZZ

Active Member
Guardian
but it does not nullify the importance of this post in any way.
I'm not necessarily trying to say that Kaph shouldn't be more 'watched' by admins I'm just saying that this 'evidence' (or lack thereof) shouldn't permit a perm ban. To me, this post seems like an unnecessary attack on the admin team for fairly not banning Kaph possibly fueled by the recent fact that Kaph left EP (which is the point that I'm trying to make). Crypt has said himself that (if he is hacking) 'we'll catch him'.
 

Sparky___

Well-Known Member
Slicer
I'm not necessarily trying to say that Kaph shouldn't be more 'watched' by admins I'm just saying that this 'evidence' (or lack thereof) shouldn't permit a perm ban. To me, this post seems like an unnessesary attack on the admin team for fairly not banning Kaph possibly fueled by the recent fact that Kaph left EP (which is the point that I'm trying to make). Crypt has said himself that (if he is hacking) 'we'll catch him'.

The only issue with this that we find is that Loka is on record for having a policy to deal with this exact situation already? This was recently brought to our attention: https://gyazo.com/e95f87b68615289ea5ce13735842c2e9
 
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