Complaint - Kaphox Radar Report and Screenshare Avoidance.

[Beetee_Latier]

We do not have evidence in the form of a screenshare of Kaph using radar

So you don't have any proof that he was even hacking

we (and admins) have clear proof he left after being asked for a screenshare, as well as further ‘hiding’ after the fact.

We also have proof that he said he didn't see Sku's message, and being offline doesn't = hiding.

We are not necessarily aiming to have him permanently banned. What we are intending is simple:

Then you should make the post primarily about changing the way they check for hackers. You guys say that that is your focus, but dedicate the majority of this post to 'exposing' Kaph. In order for me to take this post seriously you need to seperate the two points from eachother and realize that you can't claim this is bigger than just Kaph's incident while *only* focusing on the details of his incident as if you were reporting him

The only people aware of the concerns about Kaph prior to this incident were Malen, Inapplicable, and ArcherSquid. This information was never forwarded to the rest of the leaders, because of the result of the conversations Malen had with others.

So you guys didn't decide to do anything about it until he went to Iblis basically?

 

[RedSkilZZ]

The only issue with this that we find is that Loka is on record for having a policy to deal with this exact situation already? This was recently brought to our attention: https://gyazo.com/e95f87b68615289ea5ce13735842c2e9

So your argument lies around the basis that this: https://imgur.com/a/knLlxZx person was banned and Kaph wasnt or am I missing something?

 

[Skuhoo]

The only issue with this that we find is that Loka is on record for having a policy to deal with this exact situation already? This was recently brought to our attention: https://gyazo.com/e95f87b68615289ea5ce13735842c2e9

How is that the same as this current situation? Crypt said if you straight up say no to a screenshare it's assumed you're guilty. He made no mention of claims that you didn't see the screenshare message.

The reason we weren't comfortable instantly banning someone for logging off before being screenshared is because we didn't feel we had proper screenshare notifications. With the addition of a /freeze command and waiting until the suspected player is obviously actively playing, the excuse of "I didn't see the message" doesn't work and thus isn't enough to prevent a ban anymore.

 

[Sparky___]

How is that the same as this current situation? Crypt said if you straight up say no to a screenshare it's assumed you're guilty. He made no mention of claims that you didn't see the screenshare message. The reason we weren't comfortable instantly banning someone for logging off before being screenshared is because we didn't feel we had proper screenshare notifications. With the addition of a /freeze command and waiting until the suspected player is obviously actively playing, the excuse of "I didn't see the message" doesn't work and thus isn't enough to prevent a ban anymore.

That makes our question into whether or not logging off after being told not to, is a 'virtual no.' We think, given the context of this situation and what we've put out, that it's a yes. What I am getting from this situation is that right now (without a freeze plugin) I can be accused of hacks, be told not to log off, then log off and say I didn't see the message and be perfectly fine. That seems a bit messed up. Or in the future instead I could just log off and not say literally anything. Don't you understand how dumb that is? That is the door you are leaving open.

if you give any leeway then you leave that door open to people who actually are hacking to abuse.

 

[Skuhoo]

That makes our question into whether or not logging off after being told not to, is a 'virtual no.' We think, given the context of this situation and what we've put out, that it's a yes. What I am getting from this situation is that right now (without a freeze plugin) I can be accused of hacks, be told not to log off, then log off and say I didn't see the message and be perfectly fine. That seems a bit messed up. Or in the future instead I could just log off and not say literally anything. Don't you understand how dumb that is? That is the door you are leaving open.

I just said that this is the precise reason Crypt added the /freeze command that I've been asking for for months. It's implemented and working. Asking whether or not our policy pre-freeze makes sense is an entirely irrelevant point.

 

[Sparky___]

Asking whether or not our policy pre-freeze makes sense is an entirely irrelevant point.

Or in the future instead I could just log off and not say literally anything.

Future being post implementation of freeze plugin.

 

[Skuhoo]

In the future, or present, if you log off when asked to screenshare its assumed you're guilty because we now have proper methods of notifying players and ensuring they didn't just miss our pm. This was not the case in the past.

I'm really not sure what you're not understanding.

 

[Sparky___]

In the future, or present, if you log off when asked to screenshare its assumed you're guilty because we now have proper methods of notifying players and ensuring they didn't just miss your pm. This was not the case in the past.

I'm really not sure what you're not understanding.

But you didn't have the feature implemented previously, but Cryptite was willing to concede that declining a screenshare, which literally anyone can reasonably interpret (whether or not that is what he meant) to mean either directly saying no when asked for consent, or logging off to avoid it entirely? That's the problem here. People view this as being a sort of 'too little too late.' If you go back to the OP this is the kind of thing referenced when we said:

Enforcement of rules and follow-through with punishments builds trust with the community and gives them faith in that server’s ability to be run successfully and in a healthy way. The lack of that disappoints players and leads them to believe that either the administration does not care or that they cannot be trusted, in some cases both. In either case, it ultimately causes players to move on to other servers.

The thing we don't get is why the lack of a freeze command immediately precludes a player from being punished for logging off when being told not to. Can you honestly say that there will never be an instance where someone could legitimately not see the bells and whistles attached to the freeze command? No you can't, because when you really think about it, you will never be able to know whether someone legitimately did or did not see the message or notifications, unless you are literally standing with them. You can have a relative idea of whether they did or did not, but you are still just guessing. (And that is something we willingly concede about our own argument) How is that any different than what we've described? You've just attached some noises and big letters and made it less likely.

 

[Cryptite]

I'm going to try to be as thorough as I can here without being unnecessarily specific in regards to things that are said in confidence.

Night of the Incident
Walkers enumerated the events of that night, you can read the OP for that. What happened on our end was, in all fairness a failure of our process to handle potential hacks with screenshares. To this point of the post, I consider it to be fully fair. We should be taken to task if we are failing in the duties we claim to set for for ourselves.

To the point of my saying "This conversation is over", I wasn't insinuating that the whole incident was over and not to be discussed or dealt with further. In the full text of that dm with Walkers, the argument had merely become circular and no new points were being made. At no point were we going to ban Kaph because of something like being offline on Steam. Many points have been made about what justifies as "real life", or legitimately not seeing whispers, etc.

We expect and encourage players to come to the forums and raise hell if we're not doing our jobs. We may not always agree what our jobs are perceived to be, but on this I think it was 100% fair for this to be brought up. However the timespan on dealing with this situation is somewhat unique ---


Handling the Screenshare
For our breakdown of what happened, it's best to just put this in bullet point form:

• Kaph was accused of hacking by those fighting him
  
• Sku messaged Kaph after the fight asking for him not to log off - roughly 20 seconds after the message was sent, Kaph logged out
  
• He was contacted by Sku on discord as to why he logged out to which he said he did not see the message. Sku then told him it's not important (this was so we could ss him after another fight, hoping he would think it was nothing)
  
• We did not want to SS him straight after he logged out because we were not confident we would be able to find evidence since there was time for him to potentially hide any client from us.
  
• After some research we were now confident we could find evidence of clients even if he had deleted them and believed Kaph knew we wanted to ss him. Because of this we decided the best chance we had of finding anything was to ss him asap.
  
• At this point it was late at night, kaph had gone, and we decided to ss him the following day
  
• Kaph was not available and we were aware of personal reasons so decided to give him a bit more time. (we were still confident we would find anything he had)
  
• As of now numerous days have now passed and we have not been able to ss kaph.

We had not forgotten or ignored the incident. We were discussing internally the best course of action and it has still been less than a week after the incident and Kaph hasn't been online since. Because of this and some sensitive issues, we did not feel there was a huge rush to exact justice. In the past, we have not historically hunted down people screenshares immediately unless we see something blatantly obvious that we feel confident we can catch then and there. These kinds of hack reports are generally followed by extremely close scrutiny of the player so as to catch him/her in the act and do the screenshare.

That all said - Despite numerous attempts to do a ss, it boils down to plain evasion of the screenshare. And, as we have stated in the past, the punishment for this is the same as being found guilty of hacking. So, Kaph will receive a 1 month tempban.

/freeze Feature and the Future
Simply put, we did not possess at that time a /freeze feature at the time of this incident. This feature now exists, is very obvious, and is our due diligence on warning a player not to log out which is far better than a very subtle, and frankly easily-missed whisper. Further, because now have /freeze, logging out if /frozen will result in a minimum 1 MONTH BAN. This was the missing piece of the puzzle that we failed to have ready for this instance. Players can no longer effectively use "ignorance" or otherwise to claim to miss a screenshare request.

Handling "Hackusations" in the Future
How we handle this is not going to be very much different than what we have been doing. We're using this section to set expectations. Still file a /report if you'd like to give us a heads up that you think somebody might be hacking. Admins will then closely watch that player over the next few days/fights. If they then see anything suspicious, they will /freeze and screenshare if they feel confident that they can find a client. It's very unlikely a screenshare will happen that very day unless an admin can see the obvious behavior immediately. Failing to catch a hacker quickly isn't nearly as bad as prematurely trying to catch one, failing, and then they've passed a screenshare. What we have in place is a system where evading a screenshare is no longer possible, but we will still be methodical in catching players. Again, if they're blatant, and you can get an admin to see that they're doing obvious hacking right this minute, it's more likely we can do an immediate screenshare, or at least right after a fight is over.

Hopefully this helps shed some light on the situation. We feel more confident now than we have in the past and while we messed up on this one, we hope the inclusion of /freeze and the subsequent mandatory punishment if evaded will prevent this from happening again.

-Crypt

 

[shadowsword420]

It is this value in their player base that in my mind allows loka to have a very unique punishment/ban system, basically giving all these players a second chance. I'm not sure of any server that gives its players a second chance after Hacking, Xray, and other significant offenses but I highly respect lokas ideals as I truly believe everyone should get a second chance.

. . . . . .

Finally I feel you Walkers. I know we have been enemies but there has been countless times where like you I felt these "spam clickers turned pvp gods" were using some sort of kill aura and hacks, but I realized that it had to do with my personal Bias than anything else. I infact used to be super suspicious about horsia and thought everyone of them hacked, which has since been erased once I got to know them. I can also connect similarly to your tree incident as I had one with Jib back when I was in miracalis when he also found me similarly inside of a tree. My point is incidents like this happen, do you know if Kaph had a similar texture pack as yours; it obviously allowed you to see through leaves, maybe it was the same kind kaph had.

As a player I'm disappointing in this forum post. Not only are you degrading the staff of loka but in my mind trying to create forum drama as well which is another aspect of loka I been a proud part in keeping drama free. Unless you get a time machine and go back to the incident this case is as crypt said; Its going nowhere.

Im glad to see the constructive criticism, however, it’s just a *little* hard to take your claims seriously these days.

https://streamable.com/hzsna

 

[Pac_Man_]

I’m gonna avoid getting involved in this too much. I’m just gonna say that taking this to the forums, with a full argument prepared, is a breath of fresh air. I’ve seen many, many, ‘hackusations’ and “bias” in my time here. And far too many of them were just people complaining and calling hacks and bias on discord, without the resolve to go here and actually make the effort to get things changed. So regardless of what happened, and the events that surround it, good job on actually going the distance. And I’m glad people have behaved as relative adults throughout. And finally, major props to the admin team for working through all this with everyone who was involved.

 

[Jammin_Mas]

Im glad to see the constructive criticism, however, it’s just a *little* hard to take your claims seriously these days.

https://streamable.com/hzsna

Lmao this made me laugh! Touché shadowsword420!

 

[Xovious]

I know I don't play anymore- but this is the exact reason why.

I've recently come very close to Kaph and been speaking to him on a daily basis, as he evidently had pretty much no real friends(You know, people you can trust and confide in) on Loka (besides Thanius), and I've heard all of what has happened recently.

I want to first start with saying that Kaph "cheating" or "hacking" or whatever this crap is, was extremely humorous to me, as you literally took one of the kindest people I know and accused him. I have been talking to him since before he left Firsthold, willingly, after ages of his real friends telling him to keep away from toxicity and spending so much time on Loka doing things for other people and letting them take advantage of him. He probably had his other reasons- but that's the way I see it.

Shortly after leaving Firsthold, I started being told that Kaph was being harassed by his previous "friends", people who if they were actually friends of his, they would have supported him leaving and understood rather than bullying him for leaving. Making fun of his sexual attraction and essentially attempting to publicly shame him based on that, was so damn childish.

Then after that, seeing him literally being stalked on Steam, having to be set to offline on everything and attempting to avoid Loka after all of this harassment- harassment he updated us on constantly, I got even more disappointed and angry with Loka and the administration failing to properly administrate this harassing behavior again. Repeatedly, his real friends kept telling him to just leave Loka and stop dealing with this toxic and purely irrational behavior from the community, instead of investing time and money into a server that evidently doesn't treat him properly. We attempted to help him fix his sleeping schedule by encouraging him to sleep at better times, and to stick to spending time with us and doing fun hobbies on his own, to help him get out of his depressed mood that Loka was consistently putting him in. After constantly putting up with fake friends for years, him having to doubt everybody including himself and being in that constant state of paranoia, something we were helping repair, Loka was not helping in the slightest. In fact, it was doing the opposite.

The fact that the innocent was banned simply to appease the majority truly saddens me, to see that even after two years of this toxic crap, administration still cannot differentiate between the true victim and the people in the wrong, gives me no hope for the future of rule-enforcement for Loka. Regardless of the fact that people, some administration as well, sided with Kaph, they still punished someone who was innocent and emotionally abused and letting the people that truly broke the rules be happy and content that they got their revenge.

I'd usually be happy to share these screenshots, but it's a personal discord and we've all mutually agreed to never let anything out of that discord without permission from everyone. There's no point in attempting to undo the wrongs that the Lokan administration has done, and there's nothing to prove to you people, all that remains is simply that puny sense of hope that somehow still remains that the server will change its blind ways. There's a reason a large portion of the past players don't play, and this is precisely why. I tried finding motivation to play but this garbage gives me nothing but a bad taste in my mouth. Why prove you wrong when all that will happen is more manipulation, lies, toxicity, and pure pointless bickering? The damage has been dealt, and even more good people are leaving Loka, leaving behind an even more toxic community.

As for Kaph hacking... The amount of times I've seen people like Mason in the trees, along with GUARDIANS like Bat and Sku, spotting them and calling them out when shifting and invis, is literally uncountable. It's not difficult to see a colorful armored idiot sitting in a tree, especially when you have really transparent see-through leaves in your texture pack. The ignorance in all of this is just disappointing.

(And just for jokes, because I hate being constant negative)- Dude I'm the second-strongest ex-supporter of the #BanSkuMovement when Auru and Ajax thought he hacked. We had more reason to believe he hacked than you do to think Kaph hacks, he freaking slaughtered so many of us no problem because we were all noobs. I've fought alongside him and dueled him and just realized he's a washed up duck, just like I'm a washed up noob now as well.

Gist of the story- Stop being toxic pricks and learn to just deal with a loss instead of pulling crap off like this. And learn how to properly treat a human being before trying to act like a strong and good force, it's pathetic. You managed to make a Guardian quit with all of this toxic behavior, a Guardian that wouldn't listen to me when I told him he was pouring too much time into building his town on Loka and being dedicated to it, when he had exams and so much other stuff to worry about.

In memory of Kallious(Does he even still play?),
'allo loves,
and goodbye loves.

 

[DeceitfulPear]

To start, Kaphox was banned for refusing to partake in a screen share that was requested after suspicious activity. This post was made because of what was viewed as inaction on the part of administration. Regardless of how nice someone is or have much of a good person is, avoiding a screen share must be punished.

I know I don't play anymore- but this is the exact reason why.

I've recently come very close to Kaph and been speaking to him on a daily basis, as he evidently had pretty much no real friends(You know, people you can trust and confide in) on Loka (besides Thanius), and I've heard all of what has happened recently.

Very rarely do you get the whole story from having a conversation with one side of it. The whole Kaph leaving situation wasn't as simple as you're making it out to be but such things are more personal and I don't see it appropriate for this thread.

I want to first start with saying that Kaph "cheating" or "hacking" or whatever this crap is, was extremely humorous to me, as you literally took one of the kindest people I know and accused him. I have been talking to him since before he left Firsthold, willingly, after ages of his real friends telling him to keep away from toxicity and spending so much time on Loka doing things for other people and letting them take advantage of him. He probably had his other reasons- but that's the way I see it.

I mean, to be fair, even the nicest of people can cheat. I used to use x-ray when I first joined Loka thinking I wasn't gonna stick around ever and before I was really invested. Being nice doesn't exempt you from these kinds of things and accusations shouldn't be ignored or brushed to the side just because you're friends with someone.

I would also like to add that "willingly" should be replaced with "unannounced" and that'd explain why a lot of people were mad at him. To most people, including those that thought they were pretty close with him, it just kinda randomly happened and that hurts when a friend and someone who was a big part of the alliance just kinda leaves. Doesn't excuse any negative behavior that may have come about from it still.

Shortly after leaving Firsthold, I started being told that Kaph was being harassed by his previous "friends", people who if they were actually friends of his, they would have supported him leaving and understood rather than bullying him for leaving. Making fun of his sexual attraction and essentially attempting to publicly shame him based on that, was so damn childish.

wUh

Then after that, seeing him literally being stalked on Steam, having to be set to offline on everything and attempting to avoid Loka after all of this harassment- harassment he updated us on constantly, I got even more disappointed and angry with Loka and the administration failing to properly administrate this harassing behavior again. Repeatedly, his real friends kept telling him to just leave Loka and stop dealing with this toxic and purely irrational behavior from the community, instead of investing time and money into a server that evidently doesn't treat him properly. We attempted to help him fix his sleeping schedule by encouraging him to sleep at better times, and to stick to spending time with us and doing fun hobbies on his own, to help him get out of his depressed mood that Loka was consistently putting him in. After constantly putting up with fake friends for years, him having to doubt everybody including himself and being in that constant state of paranoia, something we were helping repair, Loka was not helping in the slightest. In fact, it was doing the opposite.

He wasn't stalked on Steam, we all had him as friends on steam and someone just realized his activity showed he was online. Other than that, I don't know. Maybe you know something I don't.

Quite frankly I think calling us fake friends as a general statement is in and of itself insulting and I won't humor the statement, at least from me. I also never really cared if Kaph was hacking or not, I only cared that he was apparently avoiding a screen share. When this whole fiasco happened I didn't have internet so only had chats to be able to read through.

The fact that the innocent was banned simply to appease the majority truly saddens me, to see that even after two years of this toxic crap, administration still cannot differentiate between the true victim and the people in the wrong, gives me no hope for the future of rule-enforcement for Loka. Regardless of the fact that people, some administration as well, sided with Kaph, they still punished someone who was innocent and emotionally abused and letting the people that truly broke the rules be happy and content that they got their revenge.

He wasn't innocent. He was avoiding a screen share and thus was banned on those grounds. If you read through this thread, it would seem the majority didn't even see this as much of a problem or had much of an opinion at all so saying it was to appease the majority I think is flat out wrong.

This wasn't about revenge. This was about someone avoiding a screen share. It just so happened that the accused person was Kaphox. This wasn't the first case that we were frustrated about seeing, was just kinda the straw that broke the camel's back.

I'd usually be happy to share these screenshots, but it's a personal discord and we've all mutually agreed to never let anything out of that discord without permission from everyone. There's no point in attempting to undo the wrongs that the Lokan administration has done, and there's nothing to prove to you people, all that remains is simply that puny sense of hope that somehow still remains that the server will change its blind ways.

This sounds like a nicer, calmer Malen. No constructive comment on this that hasn't been stated already, I just had to add that.
Any point that I seemingly ignored is most likely me agreeing with you, sorry I just woke up and saw a long post and felt I should respond.



Rest of your post any response I'd say has already been said in this message. Everyone currently has/had their own reasons to be frustrated at this situation and the real short comings simply comes from a lack of communication from Administrators I think. Its something to be worked on for sure. Don't fight what you think as toxicity with your own by scolding us like children though, kind of toxic in and of itself and antagonizing people never gets anywhere. This wasn't dealing with loss of someone, this was dealing with APPARENT INACTION REGARDING AVOIDING A SCREENSHARE.
There, maybe now people will see it and realize the main points of concern from the situation. (Its all been answered by Crypt now though so I guess trying to emphasis that doesn't mean much anymore).

I do find it insulting that you would discredit every point we brought regarding us talking about short comings of staff and try to simply undermine this by focusing on the topic that you can use pure emotion to manipulate others into seeing the OP has horrible. In fact, few people on this thread really commented on what we thought was the true issue regarding poor communication/apparent inaction of staff and chose to instead of being constructive would instead focus on undermining everything rather than even possibly considering our points. Sometimes it looked like people just read the first sentence of the first few paragraphs and acted like they knew everything that was in the post. This post was several days in the making written cooperatively by several people to compile all information we had and written to avoid basically all of the reactions we've been getting because we knew everyone would focus in on the wrong thing. Guess we didn't do too good of a job there.

The main concern that came out of the situation has been handled though. Got an answer on how the server will be handling this better in the future to avoid the lynching mob of players from getting their own evidence because those there administrators ain't doin' nothin'!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, for me at least, the main concern has been handled. Losing Kaphox as a friend was not an intended side effect that came out of being a part of writing this post and I hope now that he is forced to not be on Loka for a month, he will be able to better himself. No one should be relying so heavily on such a thing to get the majority of their happiness (if what you're saying is to be believed), but its a Minecraft server and not a collective therapy session. Toxicity is unavoidable on the internet in all honesty, even if it gets handled and snuffed out then someone else will show up and continue it. There are still many issues on Loka and regardless of how controversial this post may be for some people, I think it is overall a step in the right direction.

Sorry for obscene length, but figured you writing a well thought out post should be met with another long post, no matter how incoherent it may be :b

 

[Xovious]

I mean, to be fair, even the nicest of people can cheat. I used to use x-ray when I first joined Loka thinking I wasn't gonna stick around ever and before I was really invested. Being nice doesn't exempt you from these kinds of things and accusations shouldn't be ignored or brushed to the side just because you're friends with someone.

I forgot to add the fact that he is a sentry, and something that's self-explanatory when it comes to Kaph- Why the hell does he need to hack? And were you punished for using x-ray? Being exempt from something you didn't do is logical, when your only evidence of him avoiding a screenshare is "oh he logged off to sleep right after a conquest fight" and "he was offline everywhere, including Steam".

I would also like to add that "willingly" should be replaced with "unannounced" and that'd explain why a lot of people were mad at him. To most people, including those that thought they were pretty close with him, it just kinda randomly happened and that hurts when a friend and someone who was a big part of the alliance just kinda leaves. Doesn't excuse any negative behavior that may have come about from it still.

So you're telling me that your "friend" that carried several towns leaving "unannounced" on a Minecraft server to join another town in which he had friends caused you guys, his "friends", to get mad enough to essentially accuse him of having a crush on one of those friends and then harass him over it. He gave you a reason that you guys didn't like, and you all bullied him over it.

wUh

Are you seriously ignorant enough to not even realize how he was harassed?

He wasn't stalked on Steam, we all had him as friends on steam and someone just realized his activity showed he was online. Other than that, I don't know. Maybe you know something I don't.

Quite frankly I think calling us fake friends as a general statement is in and of itself insulting and I won't humor the statement, at least from me. I also never really cared if Kaph was hacking or not, I only cared that he was apparently avoiding a screen share. When this whole fiasco happened I didn't have internet so only had chats to be able to read through.

He was stalked, whether you want to believe that or not.

As for calling you guys fake friends, after how you all treated him, it was 100% justified and 100% true. You assume he was avoiding a screenshare when he was simply trying to get away from the toxic cancer that Lokan conquest creates.

He wasn't innocent. He was avoiding a screen share and thus was banned on those grounds. If you read through this thread, it would seem the majority didn't even see this as much of a problem or had much of an opinion at all so saying it was to appease the majority I think is flat out wrong.

It was definitely to appease the majority, as your entire alliance evidently supported it. "Avoiding a screenshare" and "avoiding toxicity" are two completely different things. Skuhoo himself says he didn't tell Kaph about the screenshare so he could spring it on him later to surprise him and see if he was actually hacking, rather than alerting him immediately.

This wasn't about revenge. This was about someone avoiding a screen share. It just so happened that the accused person was Kaphox. This wasn't the first case that we were frustrated about seeing, was just kinda the straw that broke the camel's back.

The timing of everything definitely makes it out to be revenge, and the more I look at it, the more it looks like revenge. It was the "straw the broke the camel's back" because the person carrying several towns and a very active player left your alliance, simply to be with other friends, and you all got butthurt to the point of having the audacity to bully him.

Don't fight what you think as toxicity with your own by scolding us like children though, kind of toxic in and of itself and antagonizing people never gets anywhere.

You know, after you've been hearing your friend getting abused and harassed by people he cared about for weeks and weeks, and then seeing that he got banned due to childish lies and crap spewed by those people he cared about, you're going to get treated exactly how you're acting, like toxic children. It's not antagonizing when you've all already antagonized yourselves by your actions.

Toxicity is unavoidable on the internet in all honesty, even if it gets handled and snuffed out then someone else will show up and continue it.

That crappy mindset is why Loka remains a toxic environment. Other gaming communities both on Minecraft and off of it have a much larger difference in levels of toxicity and how extensive it is, and some don't have any at all, because they stick to the mindset that "toxicity is avoidable on the internet". Toxicity is a life thing in general, internet or not. Anybody can get rid of it by being a decent human being, and that's something the children on this server cannot do evidently, based on their homophobic and pure bully-like comments. Your attitude is exactly what encourages toxicity both online and in the real world, with the idea that something is too big of an issue to deal with, so it shouldn't even be attempted to deal with at all. You've definitely all got a lot of thinking to do, because you need to change that mindset if you want to stop hurting good people and treating them like trash. I don't know if you did anything, but you're defending the people that did, and that's severely disappointing.

 

[DeceitfulPear]

I have admitted that I don't know the whole situation since during the majority of the time throughout this incident I didn't have internet. I stick by my point that no excuses should be allowed when someone logs out after being told not to. This situation was handled poorly by everyone involved, that I believe is obvious.

I'm not defending anyone. I'm doing what I tend to do during debates and argue against people to show things from another perspective if someone isn't around to debate for that side (causes a lot of misunderstandings and people no liking me but I can't help myself with this habit and I feel overall it does more good even if both sides of arguments tend to dislike me afterwards for "picking their side"). This entire situation was something I frankly didn't want to be a part of because it just made me uncomfortable because there was so much just wrong about it from so many angles. The main reason why I did give my two cents on here and through some points in the OP itself was because I saw an issue with how the server was being administrated and thought my opinion would be aided.

I did not care about who was involved with being hackusated in all honesty. I just got frustrated when it seemed like someone was being allowed to just vanish from it all with a mindset that "If they don't come back then the situation will be handled already". I was asked to help give information that I knew regarding the situation and I provided what I could and helped add some point to the OP and aided with slight editing and put my name on the document due to that.

This was a messy situation. That much I think we can all agree on and hopefully everyone can learn and we can get better for it.

I also want to thank you for taking part in this discussion and adding more to the conversation despite no longer playing on Loka, even if we don't see eye-to-eye on the situation. The fact that there are people who have quit the server that still occasionally get involved proves to me that Loka is a good server overall and can become even better as long as we continue to give CONSTRUCTIVE criticism on things.

And finally I just really want to reiterate that, for me anyway, this was never a Kaph issue. I always liked Kaph even if we didn't agree on things and we never really talked personally to much (and if he messaged me I would come across quite distant for other reasons) but I did and do want to at least remain somewhat friendly with him. He's a great guy, just when it comes to these things I have to stop viewing people as friends or enemies or anything like that and simply see what I know as "A player was told to not log out and they did and that is all we know and so far nothing has happened".

I hope this better explains my perspective and hand in all of this. I never intend for anyone to get hurt from anything that I say, do, or become involved in. For serious topics of discussion, I become more cold and analyzing to avoid as personal bias as much as possible and I'm aware that it can make me look like a bad person sometimes its just I refuse to allow any bias that I can prevent in such things.

Again, thank you for being involved. And thank you for everyone that has been constructive on this topic. Its tough/heavy stuff to talk about for a lot of people but these discussions are necessary to make things better. Without them, they tend to stay the same.

 

[MasonMcBadbat]

This got gross really fast. Nothing against Kaph he's great he just didn't pass a SS test. I think the mass majority of us can agree action taken beyond the request of this post regarding bullying or targeted harassment is unacceptable.

 

[Adzy]

Literally every thread is an essay now ;-;

 

[Walkers]

This incident and complaint has nothing to do with recent reports of harassment, if you want to make a complaint about it, I advise making a separate thread.

 

[Iwasnotthere]

Someone please lock this thread to prevent any more mindless gibberish