Implemented Modules lose strength based on lamp charges

[ArcherSquid]

Currently you need to get all 5 charges to destroy a module completely while it has its full power even at 20%. My idea is to have the modules scale based on the number of charges that were put on the lamp. I feel that this would make fights faster and more strategic as well as adding a new dynamic to conquest. Here are some example of how to balance the modules:

BUFF: 250% golem HP -> -25% HP per charge
DEB AURA: shorter debuff duration
LINGERING: decrease bleed effect/ radius
TNT: slower shooting rate
SLOW: shorter slow timer

As the modules gets lower the fight can become less of a stalemate and both sides can make pushes to win. As I said before, fights would be alot quicker and more fun

 

[Cryptite]

This is an interesting idea. I do wonder, however, how much this might dis-proportionally affect Inhibs, since they only have one module.

 

[ArcherSquid]

This is an interesting idea. I do wonder, however, how much this might dis-proportionally affect Inhib, since it only has one module.

Since you need 10 charges to destroy it, you can make it so that every 2 charges it weakens?

 

[BuscoNombre]

I think it could be better the other way. The less charges left you have the stronger the module becomes.

Since if you are taking charges it means the other team is probably already dead so if their modules are weaker than before they wont have as many chances of making a comeback. Also it would help the attacking side to take charges at the beginning of a fight when is actually harder to get close to the tgen because there is a bunch of people and tnt all over the place

 

[ArcherSquid]

I think it could be better the other way. The less charges left you have the stronger the module becomes.

Since if you are taking charges it means the other team is probably already dead so if their modules are weaker than before they wont have as many chances of making a comeback. Also it would help the attacking side to take charges at the beginning of a fight when is actually harder to get close to the tgen because there is a bunch of people and tnt all over the place

Well for one, they can always make a comeback because of the core mechanic. Second, no one would go for charges unless their whole team is dead as if they take charges and both sides are fighting then taking charges would put you at a disadvantage (bad design).

 

[BuscoNombre]

Well for one, they can always make a comeback because of the core mechanic. Second, no one would go for charges unless their whole team is dead as if they take charges and both sides are fighting then taking charges would put you at a disadvantage (bad design).

Once the attackers get inside the core they will most likely win the fight, those kind of comebacks rarely happen.

As you said no one would go for charges unless the other team is dead, thats the idea of why making it more balance, you give a team more chances of going for charges while all the enemy team is sitting below the modules. The point is making modules weaker when you need them less (When you have teammates to help you) and you make them stronger when you most need them (When the other team is pushing you and taking all the charges)

And the main objective is to take charges, so even if you "buff" the other team modules, you still closer to win so its worthy.We are already dealing with the modules on big fights. I was talking about starting with low damage and ending with the actual damage or just a bit higher

 

[Jammin_Mas]

Once the attackers get inside the core they will most likely win the fight, those kind of comebacks rarely happen.

As you said no one would go for charges unless the other team is dead, thats the idea of why making it more balance, you give a team more chances of going for charges while all the enemy team is sitting below the modules. The point is making modules weaker when you need them less (When you have teammates to help you) and you make them stronger when you most need them (When the other team is pushing you and taking all the charges)

And the main objective is to take charges, so even if you "buff" the other team modules, you still closer to win so its worthy.We are already dealing with the modules on big fights. I was talking about starting with low damage and ending with the actual damage or just a bit higher

Attacking is already hard as hell as is and this seems to be making it harder for attackers to win when the whole point of squidders post is to make it a tad bit easier as the fight goes on.

 

[BuscoNombre]

Attacking is already hard as hell as is and this seems to be making it harder for attackers to win when the whole point of squidders post is to make it a tad bit easier as the fight goes on.

Wtf, how is reducing the modules effect and increasing it as the fight goes actually making it harder for the attacking side as it is rn where you have to deal with the modules during the whole fight? You not even reading what i said

What archer proposes its fine i only suggest doing it the other way. Start weak and end strong.

 

[TheFreshLemon]

Wtf, how is reducing the modules effect and increasing it as the fight goes actually making it harder for the attacking side as it is rn where you have to deal with the modules during the whole fight? You not even reading what i said

What archer proposes its fine i only suggest doing it the other way. Start weak and end strong.

Getting charges is suppose to destroy the module and end the fight. If it started weak why would people get charges instead of fighting while it's weak? I like Archer's idea because it adds on to fights making them more fun and adding strategy.

 

[Sparky___]

If it started weak why would people get charges instead of fighting while it's weak?

How is this even a question? The only way to win is to get charges. Doesn't matter whether the module is strong, weak, non-existent, people can, will, and have to get charges.

 

[TheFreshLemon]

How is this even a question? The only way to win is to get charges. Doesn't matter whether the module is strong, weak, non-existent, people can, will, and have to get charges.

If the modules start out weak and get stronger after getting charges, why would you want the modules stronger while fighting the other team so it can just hurt your team? Instead I'd wipe the other team instantly so they wait for warp and get charges and end the fight. Some people want to have fun and not have an instant wipe and end the fight with one warp. Making it stronger from the start is good because people will sneak charges and fight as the modules get weaker and weaker, until ending the fight. It's just a better idea for conquest and makes getting charges more important.

 

[BuscoNombre]

And how will starting strong and ending weak will make it more funny?? Once you wipe the other team once you can just snowball the fight and ending it faster bc modules are weaker.
Snowballing already happens with the actual modules, imagine doing it like that. They will literally have less chances of making a comeback

 

[TheFreshLemon]

Longer fights? More strategies

Once you wipe the other team once you can just snowball the fight and ending it faster bc modules are weaker

If it's stronger from the start the likeliness of the other team being wiped instantly is low because they have their modules at their strongest.

Now my question to you is why do you want it lower? You suggested something, but didn't give much backing on why and what it could do.

Since if you are taking charges it means the other team is probably already dead so if their modules are weaker than before they wont have as many chances of making a comeback. Also it would help the attacking side to take charges at the beginning of a fight when is actually harder to get close to the tgen because there is a bunch of people and tnt all over the place

Again the attackers wouldn't need to get charges at this time because tnt won't be as far if it's starting weak so they can just kill the bunch of people standing around and get charges before they warp. If they are already dead, yeah they have a low chance of making a comeback because their modules got oofd while they were dead. Making it weaker also allows the attacks to get more charges off ending the fight quicker and not giving the other side much of a chance.

 

[Arvein]

Interesting idea... BUT COV'S GOTTA WIN

thumbs down

 

[BuscoNombre]

Now my question to you is why do you want it lower? You suggested something, but didn't give much backing on why and what it could do.

To give the attackers more chances to fight near the tgen and push at the beginning of the fights and still give a chance of the defending team in case they got wiped to make a comeback.
Defending is already easier than attacking, like is supposed to be. But this way you nerf them a bit on the early stage of a fight when they have full pots and people, since now modules are just giving them even more advantage than what they need

Also i dont see you explaining how and why making it the other way would be better....

Its a suggestion post. You are supposed to suggest ideas and explain, not telling *this is bad, this is more funny*

 

[TheFreshLemon]

Also i dont see you explaining how and why making it the other way would be better....

Ahahaha you got me. I just wanted more to work with I guess. I'll add on to Archer after re reading his post. I said that it would be longer fights, but it would be shorter because now every charge you get has a purpose as it weakens a module, when before it would just gave a percentage until the module is destroyed. I would like fights to be more challenging and allowing more options/opportunities. Not a quick push to end it. All those people die and the attackers get charges off, but in the time could have taken the modules down to 40-20% and only need a few more to end it.

Anyway I like this idea because after fighting Stormgarden a couple times now with a smaller group than I'm used to it was challenging and fun, and in one fight they had killed us and when we returned one of our modules was destroyed, but it didn't really matter at that point. If this was added and they spread out the charges we would've came back weaker and vulnerable allowing them to push and possibly winning. This just opened my eyes honestly and shows how charges are bad right now. We said ourselves they're used to end the fight and destroy modules, people almost did getting charges off for nothing because they still have 4 more charges to go just to take one module down. With this they could get a charge off die and still help their team because they are closer to taking the module down, but also weakened it. +1 from me.

 

[Magpieman]

This is a really cool suggestion. I'm currently unsure which iteration of this I prefer, the original suggestion of modules getting weaker per charge or Buscos slight change where modules start off weak and get stronger. In both scenarios, the 5 stages of modules would be the same just flipped as to which one is first/last.

The advantage of starting off strong and get weaker is it feels like progress is made and is more rewarding for completing objectives (getting charges). It also makes the most sense from a logical/lore point of view, getting charges off weakens the module. The downside is it can cause more snowballing, where it gets easier and easier for the side that gets the first wipe or first major push, which leads to them winning more and fewer comebacks. Fights I witness tend to take a long time to break the deadlock of getting off the first charges. Then the side that makes progress first tends to end the fight pretty quickly from there. I would argue this contributes to fights being long because neither side wants to risk dying early due to the snowball effect. Perhaps the same would happen but at the end of the fight if modules start out weak and get strong. However, to me, that is far more exciting and tense when both sides are near defeat, rather than at the start when everyone has 20 charges left.

Having modules start weak and get stronger would make it easier to get off the first few charges, breaking the deadlock, and potentially harder to snowball, allowing for more comebacks. Towns tend to have the most people alive at the start of the fight, so rely on their modules the least then, but as the fight goes on and they start dying it can be too easy to get charges off. Perhaps having modules get stronger at the later stages of the fight when they rely on them the most would make things more interesting. A possible disadvantage would be it discourages people to get charges off until they are confident they can get numerous consecutively i.e when they wipe the other team. It could be argued either way whether it makes sense for modules to get stronger as they lose charges. You could say they lose power/take damage so should be weaker but could also say the defences see the threat as greater and greater so saves it's most dangerous attacks for then.

Curious what others think about the two iterations.

 

[ArcherSquid]

Just as a real life example, usually as wars go on both sides expend most of their resources which creates gaps and opportunities to win battles. In my opinion if the modules became weaker as the fight went on the pushes for both sides would be more rewarding as opposed to the modules becoming stronger which would just cause stalemates towards the end. If a module is buffed toward the end of the fight it will make it very difficult to win and would promote the strategy of sitting under your tgen/inhib until the module would become so strong that winning would be impossible. Linking this back to the known fact that as a fight goes on your supplies become weaker, making it scale so that the module gets stronger wouldn't make that much sense.
Also just as a side note imagine a 400% golem at the end of a fight lol

 

[Kaph]

I like this suggestion a lot. In either form, I think it would benefit the current state of Conquest. To use a recent example, Rivina fights between Stormgarden and Salem have generally resulted in the defenders using their modules throughout the fight to avoid engaging in PvP. Although defenders should have an advantage, as someone in these fights it has felt somewhat unbalanced. Archer's suggestion would maintain an advantage for the defenders, but bring the attacking side closer to a more reasonable point.

 

[Cryptite]

Perhaps another way of looking at this isn't that Modules need to become stronger/weaker proportional to their health, but that something should happen when charges are gotten that helps move the fight along.

To borrow from recent changes to the outer turrets in League of Legends:

Outer turrets have large stone shields called plates. Plates act as a sort of segment for the turret’s overall health. There are five plates, each with 1000 health, meaning that turrets have 5000 total health. When a champion destroys a plate he and any allies nearby get a gold reward, but the turret gets a bit of extra damage resistance, thus becoming slightly harder to destroy. Plates disappear at 14 minutes into the game and with them the extra damage resistance.

Now we can't distribute gold to players, but perhaps some sort of benefit/buff to the entire team whenever a charge is gotten, or a module is destroyed could help motivate a push. What other things could we maybe do to reward getting charges/etc that moves the game along besides just making them stronger/weaker?

Also interesting to note the 14m thing where the plates drop. Just because fights expire after an hour doesn't mean we want them to take an hour, perhaps Conquest rules could changes slightly at a certain interval(s) to encourage a fight's progression. Of course, as others have pointed out, there is natural drain as fights drag on because of resource requirements that League doesn't have, so maybe that's moot.