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[Kylaz]

As it stands, Buffed golems deal 4 hearts of damage (pure damage, meaning they ignore invuln frames, so you can get crit at the same time and take up to 7 hearts of damage if it was a 3 heart crit). We also have the vanilla mechanic where you can heal golems with iron ingots. I think that these 2 mechanics combined are a bit OP. The intention of creating a non PvP Oriented role for conquest is good, but in practice these golems deal too much damage and are too easy to heal. I think Loka expected the cost of AIs to buff a golem to be a steep one but it is quite obvious that active players can afford it easily, which is why we often see golems buffed all the time when enemy players are on the Tgen. Some sort of nerf should be implemented, atleast to buffing golems, to make it a bit easier for the side pushing the enemy building to do so. Possible nerfs include:

• Decreasing the damage these golems do
• Making it so they do not do pure damage, or changing how this works to make eating 6.5-7 hearts of damage in a tick a less likely occurrence
• Add some sort of cooldown (the fact there isn't one on the vanilla healing golems is a bit bizarre, I have seen players hold right click with iron ingots and they keep a golem immortal)

Other ideas are welcome too, it is also worth noting that Cryptite often suggests "drawing aggro" in order to effectively counter these buffed golems, but this is often easier said than done in practice. Golem behavior is sometimes a bit unpredictable. They lock onto someone and completely ignore the other player(s) hitting them to go for that person and so on. Basically, I think Loka should realize that a lot of concepts are good in theory, but might not work so well in practice given the wonky nature of Minecraft. Thanks for reading
TLDR: Golems Buffed with AIs do much damage, very fast, ignore invuln frames, nerf them in some way (ex. cooldown)

 

[BIGSIZZLEE]

monstrosity +1 please MAKE IT WHERE IF THEY ARE BIG THEY CANT BE HEALED #NERFKB #UGHBRACES NERF THEM

 

[MommyElla]

+1 Making the golems not heal after being buffed is a great nerf

 

[mimo4]

+1 the intention of this change is appreciated but something about these golems needs to be tweaked because as it stands they cover large distances, are very fast, and do alot of damage. you are constantly getting hit at mid so having a golem come in and add 4 hearts of pure damage while you are already taking regular damage makes things quite difficult, especially in smaller fights.

 

[carbify]

+1 maybe even nerfing it to only 1 golem can be buffed at a time would make it a little more balanced

 

[Hairysonic]

-1 Enemy alliance cope at rich people using their money (you realise how broke we're going doing this, this was the entire point of the thing)

 

[badnameidea]

-1 wasting money is fun

 

[Babysoy]

Other ideas are welcome too, it is also worth noting that Cryptite often suggests "drawing aggro" in order to effectively counter these buffed golems, but this is often easier said than done in practice. Golem behavior is sometimes a bit unpredictable.

It is actually easy to say and to do, I feel like you guys just overextend a little too much to the building without thinking of the golems. -1

 

[Windows10Laptop]

The golems can only target one person, rendering the odds of getting tped to and THEN killed as a byproduct of that very low. In regards to repairing and buffing golems, time and time again, fights have proven that unless you have several dedicated players repairing and constantly buffing golems, the impact of such buffs is minimal, and doesn’t seem to change the outcome of a fight.

Only a few players actually actively use the golem repairing mechanic, and that + the golem buffing genuinely isn’t a replacement for numbers or general PVP skill. The defender (as in the person buffing/repairing golems) is not invincible, will have to heal, refill, etc… target them for a few seconds and boom no more undying golem or even better, no more defender! You are then free to take as many charges as you please.

So yeah once again, the new (and old) golem mechanics are really just an extra step to taking a charge. Furthermore, if the people you fight have someone constantly taking care of defence, odds are you’ll get swarmed by players knocking your charge off anyway.

The people complaining about this are already the best players skill-wise on the server, can’t you just stay in your lane and pot pvp instead of trying to make everything tailored to your tastes please

 

[Nekometa]

Add some sort of cooldown (the fact there isn't one on the vanilla healing golems is a bit bizarre, I have seen players hold right click with iron ingots and they keep a golem immortal)

theres a cooldown, they stay "immortal" because theres multiple people healing the golem

 

[BIGSIZZLEE]

another way to nerf is if they are buffed then any modules like slow bleed disappear

 

[mimo4]

theres a cooldown, they stay "immortal" because theres multiple people healing the golem

The cooldown should not be overridden because theres multiple players doing it IMO

 

[__Ske__]

-1
going over what you said, lets start with the damage;
A regular golem hits for around 2-2.5 hearts, when a buffed one hits for 4. Its only a 1.5 heart difference, where a smaller increase would make the buff so insignificant, that people would probably completely abandon the entire mechanic, and as you said "creating a non PvP Oriented role for conquest is good", so these people, who focus on playing with golems, would once again have no extra role. Also, about the damage ticks. If you made it so that getting hit by something else makes the golem unable to hit you (in that invuln frame), it would lead to golems very rarely landing any hits at all. You played enough to notice, that when you push, you get hit by players all the time, and the attack speed of golems is very slow, so the chances of them landing a hit would be very unlikely, making them usless, with or without the AI buff. So in conclusion, nerfing the damage won't work out at all, and will make players abandon using the buff, since it will be completely useless.

Next, you mention healing. About the cooldown, you are simply wrong. I don't think i have to really elaborate here, there is a cooldown. I suggest you welcome your conquest training groud (/c train), bring iron ingots with you, and try fixing some golems .

Your problem isn't tied to golems themselves. It is strictly tied to the team which you play with. If you don't have good shotcallers, something as silly as buffed golems will mess up your push, and ruin the plan of attack. There are quite simple ways on how to counter this mechanic, I won't be teaching you how to do that, for obvious reasons haha, but the buff itself isn't as strong as you say, and good alliance knows how to get around it when pushing.

TLDR: golem buff isn't super op, the damage is fair, there is a golem repair cooldown, and it's all a skill issue, and no nerf is needed.

 

[Zaidgvv]

-1 Enemy alliance cope at rich people using their money (you realise how broke we're going doing this, this was the entire point of the thing)

"broke" and "any alliance that has zye in it" in the same sentence

 

[Zaidgvv]

-1
going over what you said, lets start with the damage;
A regular golem hits for around 2-2.5 hearts, when a buffed one hits for 4. Its only a 1.5 heart difference, where a smaller increase would make the buff so insignificant, that people would probably completely abandon the entire mechanic, and as you said "creating a non PvP Oriented role for conquest is good", so these people, who focus on playing with golems, would once again have no extra role. Also, about the damage ticks. If you made it so that getting hit by something else makes the golem unable to hit you (in that invuln frame), it would lead to golems very rarely landing any hits at all. You played enough to notice, that when you push, you get hit by players all the time, and the attack speed of golems is very slow, so the chances of them landing a hit would be very unlikely, making them usless, with or without the AI buff. So in conclusion, nerfing the damage won't work out at all, and will make players abandon using the buff, since it will be completely useless.

Next, you mention healing. About the cooldown, you are simply wrong. I don't think i have to really elaborate here, there is a cooldown. I suggest you welcome your conquest training groud (/c train), bring iron ingots with you, and try fixing some golems .

Your problem isn't tied to golems themselves. It is strictly tied to the team which you play with. If you don't have good shotcallers, something as silly as buffed golems will mess up your push, and ruin the plan of attack. There are quite simple ways on how to counter this mechanic, I won't be teaching you how to do that, for obvious reasons haha, but the buff itself isn't as strong as you say, and good alliance knows how to get around it when pushing.

TLDR: golem buff isn't super op, the damage is fair, there is a golem repair cooldown, and it's all a skill issue, and no nerf is needed.

"only 1.5 hearts" like that isnt a 60-75% increase in damage on the golems. Also the fact that youre constantly getting hit is the issue here, that means that unless you constantly pot at 7 hearts (which wouldnt allow you to get any hits in) you are constantly at risk of just getting one shot by a golem + crit. Also about the healing other people already mentioned that yes there is a cooldown but the cooldown is person based not golem based which means even just 1 or 2 extra people healing the golem is enough to make them immortal which is insane especially if theyre constantly getting buffed. And no it is not strictly tied to the team you play with, having this mechanic means that you cant make any meaningful pushes unless you have teamwiped them in advance since fighting at their tgen without a significant number difference would make it 10x easier for your team to get wiped by random buffed golems which is incredibly demotivating for anyone who wants to try out loka since they instantly get dealt 7 hearts of damage if theyre unlucky.

 

[mimo4]

-1
going over what you said, lets start with the damage;
A regular golem hits for around 2-2.5 hearts, when a buffed one hits for 4. Its only a 1.5 heart difference

1.5 hearts is a big difference, its a 60% damage increase.

, and as you said "creating a non PvP Oriented role for conquest is good", so these people, who focus on playing with golems, would once again have no extra role.

that would be true if the mechanic is removed, which nobody has asked for i think thus far, we are asking for some sort of tweak. i am pretty sure Loka thought the AI cost would act as some sort of balance to this feature but it is quite clear that people are not held back whatsoever by the economic aspect.

Also, about the damage ticks. If you made it so that getting hit by something else makes the golem unable to hit you (in that invuln frame), it would lead to golems very rarely landing any hits at all.

a reasonable concern, during a discussion about this in the loka discord, what777 brought up what i think is a good point and something to be considered

Next, you mention healing. About the cooldown, you are simply wrong. I don't think i have to really elaborate here, there is a cooldown. I suggest you welcome your conquest training groud (/c train), bring iron ingots with you, and try fixing some golems .

in practice she is right since a player can heal it, then another can heal it, and 2 (or sometimes more) can keep doing that.

Your problem isn't tied to golems themselves. It is strictly tied to the team which you play with. If you don't have good shotcallers, something as silly as buffed golems will mess up your push, and ruin the plan of attack. There are quite simple ways on how to counter this mechanic, I won't be teaching you how to do that, for obvious reasons haha, but the buff itself isn't as strong as you say, and good alliance knows how to get around it when pushing.

i do not think there is anything too silly about golems that chip off 40% of your health (with no invuln frame). i also think your view is somewhat skewed in the sense that due to circumstances for the last 2 months (us continent hopping and starting months 500 strength behind XD), you have been mostly on the defense. i think this mechanic inherently favors defenders, since attackers have more urgency to push up and try to get charges on the T-gen (which is already beefier with its core stage and modules for each cardinal direction). i think that with every new mechanic, it is natural to tweak things around until it starts feeling right.

 

[__Ske__]

1.5 hearts is a big difference, its a 60% damage increase.

that would be true if the mechanic is removed, which nobody has asked for i think thus far, we are asking for some sort of tweak. i am pretty sure Loka thought the AI cost would act as some sort of balance to this feature but it is quite clear that people are not held back whatsoever by the economic aspect.

a reasonable concern, during a discussion about this in the loka discord, what777 brought up what i think is a good point and something to be considered
View attachment 12418
View attachment 12419


in practice she is right since a player can heal it, then another can heal it, and 2 (or sometimes more) can keep doing that.


i do not think there is anything too silly about golems that chip off 40% of your health (with no invuln frame). i also think your view is somewhat skewed in the sense that due to circumstances for the last 2 months (us continent hopping and starting months 500 strength behind XD), you have been mostly on the defense. i think this mechanic inherently favors defenders, since attackers have more urgency to push up and try to get charges on the T-gen (which is already beefier with its core stage and modules for each cardinal direction). i think that with every new mechanic, it is natural to tweak things around until it starts feeling right.

Well, what777 has a good idea, I guess that could be the little nerf that yall crave so much. It wouldn't change too much but it would satisfy your needs of a change.

As you said, it often requires multiple people healing the golem. That requires good teamwork and communication, and I believe that teamwork and communication is the foundation of conquest and loka overall, so being able to coordinate like that should be rewarded. Also multiple people fixing golems, means multiple people who focus on that instead of swinging their swords, which weakens the defence a bit, so it kind of balances itself out. And like I said in the previous post, good teamwork of the attackers can counter that easily, so I recommend consulting that with your leaders to figure out a way to fight against it. Some of your leaders believe themselves to be the greatest leaders in the history of Loka, so they should be smart enough to figure out a solution.

And lastly, it's true that we mostly defend during continent fights. But, I've played in countless reins wars, or rivis, where we attacked, and even tho the enemy golems were getting buffed pretty much all the time, it wasn't a crucial factor for the outcome of the push.

 

[__Ske__]

"only 1.5 hearts" like that isnt a 60-75% increase in damage on the golems. Also the fact that youre constantly getting hit is the issue here, that means that unless you constantly pot at 7 hearts (which wouldnt allow you to get any hits in) you are constantly at risk of just getting one shot by a golem + crit. Also about the healing other people already mentioned that yes there is a cooldown but the cooldown is person based not golem based which means even just 1 or 2 extra people healing the golem is enough to make them immortal which is insane especially if theyre constantly getting buffed. And no it is not strictly tied to the team you play with, having this mechanic means that you cant make any meaningful pushes unless you have teamwiped them in advance since fighting at their tgen without a significant number difference would make it 10x easier for your team to get wiped by random buffed golems which is incredibly demotivating for anyone who wants to try out loka since they instantly get dealt 7 hearts of damage if theyre unlucky.

You only proved my point of how it is a skill issue. In huge conquest fights, you shouldn't be pushing and expecting to take all 4 charges. WIth even numbers, you will never get a "meaningful" push. Learn how to play, and stop coping. A few months ago hyper was saying that we will cope about robin hood mutators and will try to get admins to remove them. Guess what, we just won the robin hood fights against all odds, and even tho we (me) sacrificed our KD's, there was 0 cope forum posts.

“Those who are able to adapt and change in accord with the enemy and achieve victory are called divine.”​

― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

 

[what777]

Well, what777 has a good idea, I guess that could be the little nerf that yall crave so much. It wouldn't change too much but it would satisfy your needs of a change.

Would like to add to this that besides it being a small nerf, my intent with that suggestion was mostly to reduce the amount of edgecase scenarios that cause a lot of the frustration in my view, where people just suddenly get burst and feel they died "unfairly". In general I don't really have an issue with the golems except their potential to delete players when the timing is unlucky.

Cryptite rightly pointed out that he couldn't balance the feature around those edgecases despite the fact they cause a lot of the frustration for players, I believe this change will greatly reduce the amount of frustration players feel, while letting the golems still pack a punch and hit players at the same rate as before.

 

[UghBraces]

-1 Enemy alliance cope at rich people using their money (you realise how broke we're going doing this, this was the entire point of the thing)

whoever has more shards should have absolutely 0 impact on a fight