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[Kylaz]

As it stands, Buffed golems deal 4 hearts of damage (pure damage, meaning they ignore invuln frames, so you can get crit at the same time and take up to 7 hearts of damage if it was a 3 heart crit). We also have the vanilla mechanic where you can heal golems with iron ingots. I think that these 2 mechanics combined are a bit OP. The intention of creating a non PvP Oriented role for conquest is good, but in practice these golems deal too much damage and are too easy to heal. I think Loka expected the cost of AIs to buff a golem to be a steep one but it is quite obvious that active players can afford it easily, which is why we often see golems buffed all the time when enemy players are on the Tgen. Some sort of nerf should be implemented, atleast to buffing golems, to make it a bit easier for the side pushing the enemy building to do so. Possible nerfs include:

• Decreasing the damage these golems do
• Making it so they do not do pure damage, or changing how this works to make eating 6.5-7 hearts of damage in a tick a less likely occurrence
• Add some sort of cooldown (the fact there isn't one on the vanilla healing golems is a bit bizarre, I have seen players hold right click with iron ingots and they keep a golem immortal)

Other ideas are welcome too, it is also worth noting that Cryptite often suggests "drawing aggro" in order to effectively counter these buffed golems, but this is often easier said than done in practice. Golem behavior is sometimes a bit unpredictable. They lock onto someone and completely ignore the other player(s) hitting them to go for that person and so on. Basically, I think Loka should realize that a lot of concepts are good in theory, but might not work so well in practice given the wonky nature of Minecraft. Thanks for reading
TLDR: Golems Buffed with AIs do much damage, very fast, ignore invuln frames, nerf them in some way (ex. cooldown)

 

[what777]

whoever has more shards should have absolutely 0 impact on a fight

A lot of things in conquest costs resources/shards, and buffing golems while expensive, is not any more expensive in my eyes than providing sets, AIs, pots, food, and pearls for recruits.

Not to mention the amount of shards that change hands to make towns join or leave alliances, or for players to join towns, TK, open vuln, etc.

 

[VoladorDOWN]

 

[__Ske__]

whoever has more shards should have absolutely 0 impact on a fight

Shards already have a great impact on fights. Poor town often struggle to provide their people with items and pots, and you would sometimes see towns being unable to warp after like 40 minutes of constant fighting, due to them running out of pots. Moreover to the economical factor, AI's are pretty much the only way where shards stop circulating around the entire economy. You also have that 5% tax, but its not that significant. Making people use a crap ton of AI's is good for lokas economy, and it makes some players grind a bit more, making the server more active, and that's what we all want. It's crazy how a silly golem buff can make the server more active, isn't it? Also what what777 said, paying people 50k to teamkill on a fight is way more costly, then buffing golems a bunch of times.

 

[mimo4]

As you said, it often requires multiple people healing the golem. That requires good teamwork and communication,

eh, it requires 2 players with eyes and iron ingots, theres a visual and auditory indicator for when a golem is hit, and players assigned to (or who have assigned themselves to that role) usually know what to do from then on

Also multiple people fixing golems, means multiple people who focus on that instead of swinging their swords, which weakens the defence a bit, so it kind of balances itself out.

i think i just disagree with this one. we have already established this mechanic exists to give players a non pvp oriented role, assuming they are on the defending team and have the AIs to spare (both usually true for players who do this), doing this often ends up helping their team more, since they do not do much damage output wise if they were to just start swinging on t-gen (which i think was the role most of these players occupied before this mechanic was introduced)

Learn how to play, and stop coping.

you are the only one being hostile in this thread so far

You only proved my point of how it is a skill issue. In huge conquest fights, you shouldn't be pushing and expecting to take all 4 charges. WIth even numbers, you will never get a "meaningful" push. Learn how to play, and stop coping. A few months ago hyper was saying that we will cope about robin hood mutators and will try to get admins to remove them.

not sure what that has to do with this

You only proved my point of how it is a skill issue. In huge conquest fights, you shouldn't be pushing and expecting to take all 4 charges. WIth even numbers, you will never get a "meaningful" push. Learn how to play, and stop coping. A few months ago hyper was saying that we will cope about robin hood mutators and will try to get admins to remove them. Guess what, we just won the robin hood fights

i think there was one singular robinhood fight the month you are referring to, could be wrong here though but thats the one i remember warping to

against all odds

wat

there was 0 cope forum posts.

i am pretty sure we saw a forum post when robinhood was first introduced which is why it got nerfed after (i believe some sort of damage cap, according to silent and he basically owns this mutator) which ties back into my initial point that when new mechanics are introduced its quite natural for them to get tweaked right after. we have seen this happen with most new additions to the server and i do not see why that should not be the case here. unlike with a mutator, this is much more game changing if you look at it purely from a frequency point of view

 

[Windows10Laptop]

"only 1.5 hearts" like that isnt a 60-75% increase in damage on the golems. Also the fact that youre constantly getting hit is the issue here, that means that unless you constantly pot at 7 hearts (which wouldnt allow you to get any hits in) you are constantly at risk of just getting one shot by a golem + crit. Also about the healing other people already mentioned that yes there is a cooldown but the cooldown is person based not golem based which means even just 1 or 2 extra people healing the golem is enough to make them immortal which is insane especially if theyre constantly getting buffed. And no it is not strictly tied to the team you play with, having this mechanic means that you cant make any meaningful pushes unless you have teamwiped them in advance since fighting at their tgen without a significant number difference would make it 10x easier for your team to get wiped by random buffed golems which is incredibly demotivating for anyone who wants to try out loka since they instantly get dealt 7 hearts of damage if theyre unlucky.

I just don't agree with the second part of your reasoning, as in this mechanic supposedly ruining any significant pushes. An obvious and simple counter to players healing the golems is to just kill every golem at once, which is very doable with proper coordination and communication, especially if the players doing so are skilled at conquest (which is the case for you guys). And the funny thing is this method has literally been around since before buffing golems was even a thing, to prevent your charge takers from getting knocked every time, simply take all 4 charges at once. You are guaranteed to take at least one charge that way. Taking charges was never meant to be a one-and-done thing anyway (killing a golem would remove a charge instantly if that was the case).

Sure, you could argue that this could be bypassed if your enemies had more than one defender, but that is literally a non-issue. Once again, there are very few players who actually take the decision to play full defense, and there's a good reason for that. It's just boring. You sacrifice your ability to take part in what makes conquest fun (aka pvping, teamfights, etc), to instead stay on tgen, ensuring your side's inhib stays healthy. I believe myself to be part of the few who actively play defense, and the only times I've found it fun were during the huge balak reins of April, and that was only the case because, crazily enough, pushes actually made it to my building (aka pushed work + i did not manage to save every charge because we lost one of those!)

And finally, in regards to fights in loka being skewed in favor of defenders, this is simply not true. Yes, defenders can win by letting the fight run for its full duration, and have access to the cardinal modules, but attackers gain access to extremely powerful modules that, in some cases, literally cancel the nerf applied to a vanilla feature deemed too OP. Attackers have the benefit of choice, namely what tile to place on, and using what module. Defenders aren't expected to know what their enemies will use, and must prepare so accordingly, by modding their tiles. I've personally seen many fights where defender modules are just not ideal to counter whatever module the attackers placed.

 

[VoladorDOWN]

whoever has more shards should have absolutely 0 impact on a fight

whoever is more loser should have absolutely 0 impact on fights

 

[BIGSIZZLEE]

View attachment 12423
whoever is more loser should have absolutely 0 impact on fights

how does this have anything to do with steroid golms ?

 

[VoladorDOWN]

how does this have anything to do with steroid golms ?

silence is free gang

 

[nuxva]

Keep the rich, RICH!! +1 mimo. GOLEMS DOO SOOOOOOOO MUCHHHHHHHH

 

[__Ske__]

eh, it requires 2 players with eyes and iron ingots, theres a visual and auditory indicator for when a golem is hit, and players assigned to (or who have assigned themselves to that role) usually know what to do from then on

i think i just disagree with this one. we have already established this mechanic exists to give players a non pvp oriented role, assuming they are on the defending team and have the AIs to spare (both usually true for players who do this), doing this often ends up helping their team more, since they do not do much damage output wise if they were to just start swinging on t-gen (which i think was the role most of these players occupied before this mechanic was introduced)

you are the only one being hostile in this thread so far

not sure what that has to do with this

i think there was one singular robinhood fight the month you are referring to, could be wrong here though but thats the one i remember warping to

wat
View attachment 12422


i am pretty sure we saw a forum post when robinhood was first introduced which is why it got nerfed after (i believe some sort of damage cap, according to silent and he basically owns this mutator) which ties back into my initial point that when new mechanics are introduced its quite natural for them to get tweaked right after. we have seen this happen with most new additions to the server and i do not see why that should not be the case here. unlike with a mutator, this is much more game changing if you look at it purely from a frequency point of view

Got to a point where you are calling me hostile which is fair ig, i did act a bit hostile towards user Zaidgvv, but the message was directed to him, not you. I dont really see any more significant points you make about the golem AI buff (debating if the AI buffers are more useful doing that or swinging isn't very relevant), so I belive further replies are redundant. It was a good conversation tho, time to hear what others have to say.

 

[scotrian]

ai spam go brr brr finally zye useful in conquest @ZyeMist good job im proud ofu

 

[ZyeMist]

"broke" and "any alliance that has zye in it" in the same sentence

last time i did my ri (excluding double diamonds) was september smh!

 

[carbify]

whoever has more shards should have absolutely 0 impact on a fight

i thought loka wasnt p2w!!!!

 

[ForrestNA]

-1 There's no point

 

[Asynchronized]

It's really not a bad feature to have, anyone with two AIs and a right mouse button can do this, and that's by-design. It allows players with lesser PvP ability to be useful in fights and nobody can argue that that isn't a positive addition to conquest. Though the introduction of it has proven controversial.

The playerbase has slowly started to adapt and work out new strategies to combat buffed golems (including myself). However, they are still strong and can sway the outcome of an engagement at a building quite quickly, near enough on their own, unavoidably, at the cost of two ancient ingots (half the average cost of repairing an armor set). They do however still have the same health as normal golems, making them killable, though running up to one surrounded by a team is not the best idea.

From an economical standpoint it is not expensive to do this, considering the sheer amount of AIs used to repair armor during fights. The argument that it allows rich alliances to pay to win is merely just an assumption derived from current lokan politics, by conspiracy or coincidence, richer alliances will always benefit from the perks of having more resources, that is just the nature of being rich.

I do think that they however DO require some balance changes. These suggestions are designed to meet in the middle, as the community seems quite divided over them. Here are my thoughts and ideas on how AI-buffed golems and golems in general could be given some balance and quality of life changes.

In regards to golem health and repair, here are my ideas.

1. Implement a regen / damage resistance effect for AI-buffed golems, lowering their speed and changing the cost to 4 Ancient Ingots. This would make them slower and tankier, but all around still a hard hitter on the battlefield.
   or/and
2. Make healing AI-buffed golems and regular golems with iron ingots cost considerably more, it is already ridiculously inexpensive for everyone and I mean, the golems get bigger right?
   or
3. Remove iron ingot healing entirely and instead implement golem repair through left clicking a golem with an AI (with the same amount of healing and cooldown). With the cost of one AI for a regular golem, and two AIs for a buffed golem.

In regards to golem damage, here are my ideas.

1. Lower the amount of damage an AI-buffed golem does to 2.5 hearts of pure damage with a 3 second bleeding effect ontop.
2. Allow players with thick skin to receive less pure damage from both buffed and non-buffed golems. (Plus maybe this could become a potion like dbr, with sticky webbing as the mat?)
3. Stop golem damage from going through shields, but allow golem damage to disable it like an axe. With AI-buffed golems completely bypassing this and doing damage through the shield.

And just to add, I don't think that this feature belongs on rivina at all, it is ruining the pace of fights and it should be disabled on it until changes that represent the smaller team sizes are tested and implemented.

I invite you to combine these ideas and consider their benefits and drawbacks.
That is all.

 

[fa1c]

I just don't agree with the second part of your reasoning, as in this mechanic supposedly ruining any significant pushes. An obvious and simple counter to players healing the golems is to just kill every golem at once, which is very doable with proper coordination and communication, especially if the players doing so are skilled at conquest (which is the case for you guys). And the funny thing is this method has literally been around since before buffing golems was even a thing, to prevent your charge takers from getting knocked every time, simply take all 4 charges at once. You are guaranteed to take at least one charge that way. Taking charges was never meant to be a one-and-done thing anyway (killing a golem would remove a charge instantly if that was the case).

Sure, you could argue that this could be bypassed if your enemies had more than one defender, but that is literally a non-issue. Once again, there are very few players who actually take the decision to play full defense, and there's a good reason for that. It's just boring. You sacrifice your ability to take part in what makes conquest fun (aka pvping, teamfights, etc), to instead stay on tgen, ensuring your side's inhib stays healthy. I believe myself to be part of the few who actively play defense, and the only times I've found it fun were during the huge balak reins of April, and that was only the case because, crazily enough, pushes actually made it to my building (aka pushed work + i did not manage to save every charge because we lost one of those!)

And finally, in regards to fights in loka being skewed in favor of defenders, this is simply not true. Yes, defenders can win by letting the fight run for its full duration, and have access to the cardinal modules, but attackers gain access to extremely powerful modules that, in some cases, literally cancel the nerf applied to a vanilla feature deemed too OP. Attackers have the benefit of choice, namely what tile to place on, and using what module. Defenders aren't expected to know what their enemies will use, and must prepare so accordingly, by modding their tiles. I've personally seen many fights where defender modules are just not ideal to counter whatever module the attackers placed.

keyboard warrior
buffed golems CANNOT be this deep

 

[Vai]

hey man, these are like huge buffs if you think about it.

1. Lower the amount of damage an AI-buffed golem does to 2.5 hearts of pure damage with a 3 second bleeding effect ontop.
3. Stop golem damage from going through shields, but allow golem damage to disable it like an axe. With AI-buffed golems completely bypassing this and doing damage through the shield.

 

[SilentStormSix]

View attachment 12421

its true

Honestly I am still a big fan of wasting peoples money by running near tgen and they panic buff all the golems.

 

[Asynchronized]

hey man, these are like huge buffs if you think about it.

exactly, I don't think that golems should be weak, the first suggestion you pointed out is simply just because 4 hearts is a very odd number to apply instantly and usually results in unavoidable and near instant death when combined with other things, the bleed would make up for that and still make a player very killable in that window.

the second thing is simply QoL for charge-getters and sneakers, it gives you the time till the golem's next swing to get the charge when using a shield, plus golems smarten up a bit with that feature.

i am pro golem but i think balance needs to be considered.

 

[UghBraces]

A lot of things in conquest costs resources/shards, and buffing golems while expensive, is not any more expensive in my eyes than providing sets, AIs, pots, food, and pearls for recruits.

Not to mention the amount of shards that change hands to make towns join or leave alliances, or for players to join towns, TK, open vuln, etc.

i definitely think AIing a golem every 15 seconds for the entire duration of the fight takes more work than the set and shulkers i am giving to a recruit so you are just wrong. also none of those things directly affect conquest mechanics which this does so again you are wrong.