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Suggestion Nerf pearl bombs damage & range greatly or completely rework/remove

berdb

Active Member
Slicer
The current state of pearl bomb is horrible game design. It isn't overpowered and it doesn't completely win fights, yet it ruins the gameplay entirely.

INTRO & TLDR:

Pearl Bomb is in an unhealthy state for the server. The problem is that it constantly produces unreactable, instant deaths if your "unlucky". (but its not rare, see in common arguments) In large fights unlucky explosion timing (common with the large # of pearl bombs) in combination with the large explosion radius often creates situations where players have no time to reasonably react before taking 5–6 hearts. (see clips for repeated examples). This design doesn’t reward skill or awareness, this module is just complete bs where you can randomly just die if your not hiding in the sidelines. It forces players to avoid mid (and inhib) just like the crystal era. If crystals were reworked for these same reasons, Pearl Bomb deserves the same treatment.

In Cryptite's own words when nerfing crystals:
"Despite arguments to the contrary we do not agree that less than one-second of reaction time before taking upwards of 6+ hearts of damage is sufficient, fun game design, or balanced.".

It's insane how this statement applies to both prenerf crystals and current endermites. If he used this exact same line when nerfing pearl bomb no one would notice. In theory, endermites have a couple second detonation time, but when your at a large fight and theres mites everywhere, the moment you see one you can very well just explode. (See some examples in clips section)

Pearl bombs range & damage should be nerfed considerably and its health should be increased to 20. (Or just flatout rework it, its just bad game design)
(the health part is because apparently if a endermite spawns clipped inside a block it just dies and instantly explodes and hits everyone, not sure if true)

Take a look at these clips:

Clip 1:

Here a pearl bomb explodes and from an absurd range deals 7 hearts of damage. Less than a second to react. How is this good game design? Just sit in the back/side?
Cryptite: "We do not agree that less than one-second of reaction time before taking upwards of 6+ hearts of damage is sufficient, fun game design, or balanced.". (lol)


Clip 2:
Here less than a second after seen it explodes and deals 5.5 hearts of damage then another endermite with no time to react explodes and finishes kylaz off (another 5.5hearts of dmg) What was kylaz supposed to do here?
Cryptite: "We do not agree that less than one-second of reaction time before taking upwards of 6+ hearts of damage is sufficient, fun game design, or balanced.". (lol)


Clip 3:
Here there is a pearl bomb infront then one spawns behind, cornered between 2 endermites I try to run fowards and attempt to not die yet I get hit by BOTH endermites from an absurd range then pearl straight into a THIRD ENDERMITE. How is this gameplay what the server wants? No different than crystals genuinely worse even.


Clip 4:
Don't even know what to say this clip is just absurd, people can just sit at mid crystaling (usually useless for kills) but with pearl bomb randomly exploding from behind it insta kills both. Just avoid mid completely I guess? Same issue as pre nerf crystals then lol.
Cryptite: "We do not agree that less than one-second of reaction time before taking upwards of 6+ hearts of damage is sufficient, fun game design, or balanced.". (lol)

Clip 5:
dont even know what to say. just watch. its horrible

Clip 6:
the worst one yet;


Common arguments:

"I haven't died by a pearl bomb since 2022 so.."
"Just don't play in mid"
"ur gonna feel the effect of pearl bomb wqhen ur sat in mid"
This is an argument players also used to defend crystals. It was pretty easy to just avoid crystals yet they were gutted. You could completely avoid both crystals and endermites by playing in the side and backlines and never die to them yet this isn't the gameplay the server wants- It's simply bad game design.

"every endermite in death range is hearable thats a skill issue"
"the endermites glow its easy to avoid lol"
"pearl bomb is fine it just needs to be more noticeable"
"You are just unaware"
As said in my introduction:

Pearl bomb constantly produces unreactable, instant deaths if your "unlucky". (but its not rare, see in common arguments) In large fights unlucky explosion timing (common with the large # of pearl bombs) and the large explosion radius often creates situations where players have less than 1 second to react before taking 5–6 hearts. (see clips for repeated examples). This design doesn’t reward skill or awareness, this module is just complete bs where you can randomly just die if your not hiding in the sidelines. It forces players to avoid mid (and inhib) just like the crystal era. If crystals were reworked for these same reasons, Pearl Bomb deserves the same treatment.

If were looking at a simulation where your fighting mid, pearl bomb spawns beside you, you can hear/see it and sprint away. This is true, but that's just not how it plays out. You often just get nuked by pre existing endermites. https://streamable.com/b57exv no time to react into 6heart explosion, https://streamable.com/b57exv less than a second to react, or whatever the hell this is https://streamable.com/ye61xm, whatever this was too https://streamable.com/si8fu0. Making it more noticeable will not do anything either and not fix these "unlucky" situations.


"Bro pearl bomb has been nerfed 10 times"
Crystals also got nerfed multiple times before the current state, not much more to be said.

"you guys just got unlucky lol"
"look man I got hit by about 15 pearl bombs that fight and none of them were able to kill me"
You can sometimes tank multiple explosions without dying, but the issue is the extremely common “unlucky” situations where you have no time to react before exploding. This isn’t skill based, awareness doesn't help- it’s just bad design that forces players to avoid mid/inhib if they dont want to randomly die.

If you just hear:
"Oh a pearl bomb spawned behind you and infront of you? Then u tried to run away and blew up then pearled right into another one and blew up again?" (https://streamable.com/ye61xm)
"Oh you ran straight into a pearl bomb and the moment it came in your render distance it exploded you for 7 hearts, instantly dying." (https://streamable.com/4n8mii)
"Oh you fought on inhib then the moment you spotted a mite infront of you it exploded for 5.5 hearts then another behind you also exploded for another 5.5 hearts?" (https://streamable.com/b57exv)
"Oh you got expoloded by a crystal then an endermite 0.25s later?" (https://streamable.com/hwkyfd)
"Oh you just got comepleted erased off the map?" (https://streamable.com/si8fu0)

It'd just seem that they just got unlucky, yet situations like these keep happening to countless people every fight. With the absurd range and just concept of pearl bomb, "unlucky" situations like this are constantly made, its just a common occurrence. I do not agree at all that these are just rare unlucky situations, I would say its extremely common to just randomly face an unreasonable death.

"Well its clearly not helping HL win any fights"
Did crystals help anti HL win any fights? We abused it harder than anyone else yet it never helped win, it just resulted in horrible gameplay. Helian league always won but crystals did not make the game fun. The issue is not that it's a win condition, the issue is that you have to completely avoid sections of the map, constantly have to deal with randomly taking 6 hearts of dmg if playing mid/inhib. Yes, you can avoid ones that spawn beside you due to the glowing/noise but its not that simple. In large fights unlucky explosion timing in combination with the large explosion radius often creates situations where players have no time to reasonably react before taking 5–6 hearts. (WATCH THE CLIPS).
 
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19 voters
When I’m spectating fights and now when watching these clips, it’s hard to deny that deaths to these crawling landmines often feel unearned. You can’t realistically maintain that level of hyper-awareness through all the noise, particles, and general chaos of conquest. If the core playerbase struggles with it, you can imagine what the new recruits are going through

Finding a nerf or rework that everyone can agree on is obviously unlikely, but I think there are solid compromises that could keep Pearl Bomb interesting and still making it fairer for everyone:

1. Amplify the warning cues and detonation time even more.
Make the alert louder, longer, and more distinct. Ideally in the form of a brief “charging” sound before detonation. That would give players a realistic chance to react, instead of getting a one way ticket to the lobby.

2. Increase the scaling drop per destroyed lamp.
Pearl Bomb already weakens as lamps are destroyed (I believe), scaling that reduction even more could hopefully help push players toward objective gameplay sooner. Because the faster those lamps get taken down, the safer the fight becomes.
 
I think this just shows an issue with other attacker modules in general being super weak although I don’t think this is a bad thing and I believe modules should be more tactical rather than rolling a dice and nuking people

#rework modules
attacker mods arent weak by any means every mod besides like chain reaction can be useful in <150 player fights, the issue is in bigger fights where most of them are useless compared to pearl bomb and tac rush since these 2 mods scale with the amount of attackers in the fight so theres no reason to use any other mod
 
lower the range and make it so they cant be on building and its fine imo

i have died every fight to these
 
can someone tell me the last time chain reaction and golem override was placed in a fight above 100 people 😭
we placed golem override once or twice this month, to no great effect cuz we couldnt get a push going, but it was heavily used during the month against The Onslaught, before yall discovered how OP tac rush was back then
 
tbh thinking about all that, an overall rework of both defender and attacker modules could be a fun thing, perhaps a new thread would be needed to gather ideas for new modules for defenders and attackers, to replace the useless mods such as chain reaction for attackers, the very clearly hated pearl bomb. And for defenders things like tnt and the laser could get replaced, with some fun stuff that people suggest.
Implement these changes for the new year, where conquest should overall look way different, with no HL in the picture, more variety in alliances, more fun, and no 400 player fights. New mods would add even more freshness to all that
 
we placed golem override once or twice this month, to no great effect cuz we couldnt get a push going, but it was heavily used during the month against The Onslaught, before yall discovered how OP tac rush was back then
chain reaction just dead then
 
A big balancing issue on loka for attacker modules is that there is a split between modules that passively strengthen the attackers, whether it is by dealing large amounts of damage to enemy players (pearl bomb) or by healing large amounts of health for allied players (tac rush) and modules that require active attacker strategy like supercharged, shield wall or chain reaction.

The primary issue being that in these large fights there is almost zero incentive to use the latter type of modules when the first type is available to you. Modules like tactical rush and pearl bomb offer a great benefit to the attacking side in exchange for them doing something they would be doing anyways (pearling and dying happen constantly and naturally in fights, these modules just add a benefit to this when it does happen). Compare this to a module like supercharged or chain reaction which requires effective teamwork and player strategy to utilize efficiently (things like a longer charge cooldown or a frozen golem are not as directly beneficial as a basic mechanic like your pearl spawning exploding endermites or your ally dying spawning infinite health pool, they require proper gameplay to effectively utilize, shield wall especially is only utilized in rarer scenarios where a large portion of the attacker side brings a shield specifically to take advantage of the module). As things currently stand this means we will continue to see the attacking "meta" in big fights shift constantly from tactical rush to pearl bomb etc while the other attacking modules remain neglected and I think it is something to keep mind in case the server considers adding any new attacking modules sometime soon.

Obviously there is still some degree of strategy when it comes to utilizing pearl bomb for example (but lets be honest the strategy here is nowhere near as demanding as the modules in the second category, it is just yelling SPAM PEARLS in vc), but as it stands there is simply no proper alternative for attackers and I think this should change. Loka should work on implementing new attacker modules (maybe create a thread to take suggestions for ideas like the original mutator forum post?) that give attackers good alternatives that require atleast some level of cohesion to utilize properly.

The problem right now for me is that pearl bomb is already nerfed and I feel like a serious second nerf to its damage and its range etc would just make it flat out useless and neglected like alot of the other modules are in these large fights, although I will say it is very silly a pearl bomb in lava explodes instantly because the mite just dies to the lava lol, that should probably be changed.

+0 from me, its a flawed module but it is nowhere near broken enough where an objectively worse side can be carried to victory (the fights this month have shown us that it isnt) and Loka does not offer proper alternatives for attackers, all that a nerf would do right now I feel like is just make another module neglected and unused. I think the way endermites can instantly die to suffocation or lava should be removed, and that Loka should consider adding new attacker modules that can compete with the more used ones, or maybe buffing already existing modules.
 
The problem right now for me is that pearl bomb is already nerfed and I feel like a serious second nerf to its damage and its range etc would just make it flat out useless and neglected like alot of the other modules are in these large fights, although I will say it is very silly a pearl bomb in lava explodes instantly because the mite just dies to the lava lol, that should probably be changed.

+0 from me, its a flawed module but it is nowhere near broken enough where an objectively worse side can be carried to victory (the fights this month have shown us that it isnt) and Loka does not offer proper alternatives for attackers, all that a nerf would do right now I feel like is just make another module neglected and unused. I think the way endermites can instantly die to suffocation or lava should be removed, and that Loka should consider adding new attacker modules that can compete with the more used ones, or maybe buffing already existing modules.
I don't see any of the logic in defending pearl bomb by saying "it is nowhere near broken enough where an objectively worse side can be carried to victory (the fights this month have shown us that it isnt)", we lost months in a row while abusing crystals against HL yet they got gutted multiple times in the end to the point of uselessness as it wasn't the gameplay the server wants. I don't see how these constant unreasonable deaths are what the server wants when you can just spontaneously combust with no time to reasonably react.

But yeah they should probably bundle nerfing pearl bomb with the addition of new attacker modules/defender nerfs or else fights would become too defender sided, I just pray that they don't take 7 months to add all of that and pearl bomb sticks around the whole time.
 
I don't see any of the logic in defending pearl bomb by saying "it is nowhere near broken enough where an objectively worse side can be carried to victory (the fights this month have shown us that it isnt)", we lost months in a row while abusing crystals against HL yet they got gutted multiple times in the end to the point of uselessness as it wasn't the gameplay the server wants. I don't see how these constant unreasonable deaths are what the server wants when you can just spontaneously combust with no time to reasonably react.

But yeah they should probably bundle nerfing pearl bomb with the addition of new attacker modules/defender nerfs or else fights would become too defender sided, I just pray that they don't take 7 months to add all of that and pearl bomb sticks around the whole time.
I guess I just don’t personally feel that it is too broken because I abused it constantly pre nerf and the way I used it back then is not viable at all right now. I also just personally haven’t died to it at all this month, and I feel like I’m in the action for most of the fight. Whenever I hear the noise or see one I just keep my distance and I end up fine, what’s happened in the clips hasn’t happened to me so that probably affects my view of things, although I think it is pretty dumb that pearl bombs can spawn on inhib but not on tgen. They shouldn’t spawn on either of the buildings
 
attacker mods arent weak by any means every mod besides like chain reaction can be useful in <150 player fights, the issue is in bigger fights where most of them are useless compared to pearl bomb and tac rush since these 2 mods scale with the amount of attackers in the fight so theres no reason to use any other mod
im big fights all mods are poo compared to pearl bomb rn and pearl bomb isnt even that good, mods r more effective in smaller fights as the scaling is bad

(e.g supercharged and shield wall OP in rivi but in big fights they are much weaker)
 
Just had a new thought for a potential “solution”: What if the explosions couldn’t outright kill you, meaning the damage would cap at 1 heart remaining?

For example, if the explosion deals 6 hearts of damage right now and you only have 5 hearts left, you’d be reduced to 1 heart, instead of being instantly deleted before you even have time to react.
 
Just had a new thought for a potential “solution”: What if the explosions couldn’t outright kill you, meaning the damage would cap at 1 heart remaining?

For example, if the explosion deals 6 hearts of damage right now and you only have 5 hearts left, you’d be reduced to 1 heart, instead of being instantly deleted before you even have time to react.
Most of the deaths come from fall damage, the damage the endermites do themselves is usually quite easy to survive but when you also count the fact u get flung 30 blocks in the air then you have problems
 
Most of the deaths come from fall damage, the damage the endermites do themselves is usually quite easy to survive but when you also count the fact u get flung 30 blocks in the air then you have problems
disagree with "most of the deaths come from fall damage" but yeah if your guranteed to survive pearl bomb on 1 heart your still gonna just take the final heart from fall damage most likely
 
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