Suggestion Ping Floor

[SirMaltier]

Now, before you guys go ahead and flame me I'd like to say two things.

Firstly, pings are inherently unfair to players. However, there's no way to make this a perfect system. And ping in no way is a game changer, it's simply a boost. You need the skills to back it before you can take advantage.
Second, This is TimeCentaurs idea, so flame him not me.

So firstly. As most things start a problem is identified. Ping appears to give an advantage to players, on both sides of Spectrums, of low ping, and moderately high ping.

Specifically, we can look at ranges of Ping > 10ms, and ping between 100-150.

You might ask, why is this? Well low ping is rather self explanatory. You're able to respond faster, and your actions are carried out faster. I have personally died from 7 hearts in literally less than two seconds, and that is measured in a video I made before. The advantages of ping are real, and if needed I can make a separate post about that.

To also boost this, the anti cheat effects players much less when they have a more stable connection, same goes for hit registration.

Now the 100-150 ping is rather unfix able, and is a double edged sword. They can't pot as well, anti-cheat hits them more, and they are more prone to lagging out. Their best strength is delayed hits and easier strafing patterns due to slightly teleportation.

Solution to the problems:
Ping cap. I personally say ping cap at 50, as opposed to what other people who are behind this, where they are saying 20-30, which is meant specifically for skuhoo. I think 50 is a rather good number, it might make everyone feel a bit more lag, but it's more fair for more players (In my belief that is, from what I can tell people average 20-80 ping on here, and 50 is kinda just more playable).

If we look at the server, and the conquest one of the biggest things? Keeping the conquest system fair, and accessible for all players. It's the reason behind no mods being allowed such as 5Zig, that give on screen notifications.

Now some people might argue ping is not an issue. I'll gladly hold an argument with them, showing my proof that yes, ping does make a big difference. So while discussion this idea specifically, I'd prefer if we went under the assumption, that yes ping does make a difference.

Sidenote: I'd like to re-iterate what I stated at the start. Ping does not make a player good, and only a skilled PvPer can utilize the benefits it gives.

 

[ArcherSquid]

lets strap the host onto a satellite and fly it around the world so that everyone gets ping

 

[Jammin_Mas]

I dont really see a issue with the way it is now, malt must be going psycho bc he lives in a continent of 100% peace.

 

[SirMaltier]

We had this town called K3BAB or something try to attack us last month, it's owner failed horribly tho, we wanted a good fight :/

 

[Wizardteepot]

For someone who's technologically unintelligent (totally not myself...) how might you go about changing this "ping cap". I know League recently moved their host server from California to Chicago, which I agree, it was amazing. In a League game, I went from 100~110ms to about 50~60, but lots of players on the west coast also had higher ping due to the move. The only solution I can personally think of is physically moving the server host, but that might not be physically possible. Besides, sure, you might benefit or harm some people here and there if you were to be like League and move it closer to the middle of the country, but what do you do then for the Europeans and Australians? Would it matter for them either way?

Again, this is going off the assumption that you'd have to physically move the server. By all means, if I'm wrong and there's a more logical way to do this, please let me know.

 

[SirMaltier]

I'm also not aware of the way to actually do it, however I've been told from Time (Presumably told by Cryptite) that yes it's possible to have a ping cap set to a certain level.

 

[Xovious]

This is an argument that Auru touched on (before any of us really truly understood PvP fully, mainly because someone inexperienced at PvP pushed the argument), but it's something that has fair sides on both sides. From what I've heard from talking with Crypt several times about it, and something Skuhoo said, no game ever caps ping for people, it's kind of just working backwards. Ping in my opinion most certainly makes a difference, but putting a minimum to 20 or 50 for example is something unappealing to the people that live near the server, whereas it's appealing to people like me who get around 60-70 ms, and am at a disadvantage to someone like Skuhoo or any of his friends that live literally in the server, with anywhere under 10ms usually. It may not matter too much if it's a couple of potatoes that are fighting, or even if it's two somewhat decent people, but when it comes to the skill level that the higher tier PvP'ers of Loka, I feel like it's huge. Skuhoo's skill level is certainly high, but his ability to react quicker than I can simply because of a quicker connection can easily result in my death due to the delay I get. There's been many occasions in duels with him and even in conquest with them where I'd go to pot or etc, and he would deal damage faster than what people usually do, or would generally be able to hit me faster than normal and I'd misjudge how long I could survive eating my food because of that. Another argument for ping being raised is the fact that Loka isn't another game, and that it is unique. We can't have multiple servers across the world like real games to balance the ping, but we also can't have one server just because of how heavy PvP is here and how much it matters on our unique server. To me, both sides have valid concerns but to me personally I feel that ping being raised to a minimum is a good idea, because it brings more of a balance to the server and gets rid of advantages that otherwise could only be solved by literally moving, which isn't plausible for a Minecraft server. (Sorry Crypt we love Loka, but not that much)

 

[Galaxy219]

I personally have decent ping from around 30-40. But I have played on many servers with around 50-60 ping, and tbh I never really noticed a difference from 30-60. I have played on servers having almost 150ping and making it harder to pvp. Now ive never had ping below 30 so I don't know for sure how much of a difference it makes. So ping does matter in my opinion but idk how much of a use putting it to 50 would be.

 

[SirMaltier]

I feel it might be a bit late for my formal proposal of the ping cap, and Asymphir did touch up on this in the above.

This mostly matters at the highest level of PvP. Anyone whos fought Asymphir, Adzy, Nokkers, Gibbon, etc know they are skilled. In those higher level match ups it's based on being able to move on instinct, and not thinking. the milliseconds DO matter especially when it boils down to these 1v3s, 1v4s some people have to face.

 

[SirMaltier]

For someone who's technologically unintelligent (totally not myself...) how might you go about changing this "ping cap". I know League recently moved their host server from California to Chicago, which I agree, it was amazing. In a League game, I went from 100~110ms to about 50~60, but lots of players on the west coast also had higher ping due to the move. The only solution I can personally think of is physically moving the server host, but that might not be physically possible. Besides, sure, you might benefit or harm some people here and there if you were to be like League and move it closer to the middle of the country, but what do you do then for the Europeans and Australians? Would it matter for them either way?

Again, this is going off the assumption that you'd have to physically move the server. By all means, if I'm wrong and there's a more logical way to do this, please let me know.

https://gyazo.com/914e55c1315f53eb85815c4bcb63e8a5

 

[Teyuh]

If u fight someone who is lagging u can tell the difference (bad ping) bc they will be teleporting around and cirtting u when u are not in the spot they are aiming

 

[SirMaltier]

also, when you guys vote no, if you don't mind coming down and explaining your reasoning for leaving it vanilla

 

[TimeCentaur]

I've been PvPing for almost the start of 1.9 PvP as most people here have done and I've noticed the trends that come with better ping. At such a level, yes the skill is essentially the prerequisite for ping making any difference, but when it does get to such points, it does matter.
A couple of examples I can give are Tremor(~20ms) and Mario(~4ms). I generally beat Tremor in duels most of the time but these duels always have shown Tremor having the slight advantage. The main difference between him and I winning is the game sense that comes with it (the whole skill aspect) where there is a large enough gap to tilt the odds.
With Mario, I trained him when he wasn't as good at PvP for a few weeks and easily he was already proving to be difficult to fight, and yet when it came to him fighting other people with a similar ping he would die pretty quickly.

 

[Zor95]

I can't tell if this is a serious suggestion or not.

Yes, ping gives an advantage to certain players. Yes, it can be unfair sometimes. Is it a big deal? Not really. This is the internet. Dealing with ping is something you should be used to if you play any other multiplayer games. And how many examples are there where lower ping would've changed the outcome of a battle? It might be more of an issue once we're running 1v1 seasons again, but you likely aren't going to be fighting the same person over and over. If ping is somehow costing you wins then you'll have an opportunity to make up for that by fighting everyone else.

Also, Loka is a whole lot more than just PvP. As you say, higher ping means that Anti-cheat is more sensitive to you. Ghost blocks are also more common along with many other inconveniences. Is it really worth making people suffer just so you can get away with less practice? Do you think new players would find the server appealing when they learned that their ping is being throttled?

And how would this be done? If you move the server to anywhere except Iceland or Antarctica you'll just be moving the advantage around. Do you suggest throttling connections somehow? That would have very poor consequences.

If this is truly an issue for you then I would suggest you make sure you have at least 60 fps at all times and start practicing with a bow. Low fps has a more severe impact on fights than latency and bows are, well, bows.

 

[Teyuh]

I find fps more helpful than ping most of the time (since most people I fight have almost the same ping as I so) I used 2 play on 30 fps and I was trash switched to a intel graphics card (without knowing) and i would run 50 fps and I would be a bit better. When I went back to my GtX 960 I would get 150 fps recording fights and 150-300 without recording and I did 100% better so without the ping fps does matter in my eyes if thats what your saying.

 

[SirMaltier]

I can't tell if this is a serious suggestion or not.

Yes, ping gives an advantage to certain players. Yes, it can be unfair sometimes. Is it a big deal? Not really. How many examples are there where lower ping would've changed the outcome of a battle. It might be more of an issue once we're running 1v1 seasons again, but you likely aren't going to be fighting the same person over and over. If ping is somehow costing you wins then you'll have an opportunity to make up for that by fighting everyone else.

Also, Loka is a whole lot more than just PvP. As you say, higher ping means that Anti-cheat is more sensitive to you. Ghost blocks are also more common along with many other inconveniences. Is it really worth making people suffer just so you can get away with less practice? Do you think new players would find the server appealing when they learned that their ping is being throttled?

And how would this be done? If you move the server to anywhere except Iceland or Antarctica you'll just be moving the advantage around. Do you suggest throttling connections somehow? That would have very poor consequences.

If this is truly an issue for you then I would suggest you make sure you have at least 60 fps at all times and start practicing with a bow.

Thank you for being the first person who actually applies effort into a response against it.

First, yes this is a serious suggestion that has been being talked about for a few weeks now.

Ping is most effective in the 1v1 situation, however most encounters on Loka conquest are 1v1, short skirmishes, not prolonged too long, but killing or gaining an advantage and draining someone of pots is very effective. When a player has an advantage in a loka fight they are able to press it. If you're being combo'd you have a few choices. Die being one, drain your health pots, pearl away, or call for help.

Dying is the worst, and if this happens enough in this 1v1's then yes very game changing.
Draining health pots, some people do this because no better options, and it does make the player play more safe, or die the next time they get into a situation.
Pearling away can be chased, and for towns that might be more poor, is simply not an option.
Calling for help is the best method, but hard to track and help the person, or they might not get help.

Also, I don't think it's fair to think just because of the suggestion it's viewed as wanting less practice. Anyone who knows me, knows I started PvPing in 1.8, and was by far one of the worst people. I trained for hours, and became one of the best on a past server. Further, on Loka I've been dumping hours into training as well, and while it's harder to train for all the things in conquest I think I'm gradually improving.

And for the new players, I think the same thing can be said for the 33% damage boost. Not everyone finds it appealing exactly, but due to the way the server is, players can't really say anything without being shut down. The conquest is too good for people to pass up however, which is why people stay.

For the how this is done, see above I posted a gyazo of something Crypt said.

 

[TimeCentaur]

I can't tell if this is a serious suggestion or not.

Yes, ping gives an advantage to certain players. Yes, it can be unfair sometimes. Is it a big deal? Not really. This is the internet. Dealing with ping is something you should be used to if you play any other multiplayer games. And how many examples are there where lower ping would've changed the outcome of a battle? It might be more of an issue once we're running 1v1 seasons again, but you likely aren't going to be fighting the same person over and over. If ping is somehow costing you wins then you'll have an opportunity to make up for that by fighting everyone else.

Also, Loka is a whole lot more than just PvP. As you say, higher ping means that Anti-cheat is more sensitive to you. Ghost blocks are also more common along with many other inconveniences. Is it really worth making people suffer just so you can get away with less practice? Do you think new players would find the server appealing when they learned that their ping is being throttled?

And how would this be done? If you move the server to anywhere except Iceland or Antarctica you'll just be moving the advantage around. Do you suggest throttling connections somehow? That would have very poor consequences.

If this is truly an issue for you then I would suggest you make sure you have at least 60 fps at all times and start practicing with a bow. Low fps has a more severe impact on fights than latency and bows are, well, bows.

I understand why you see we just lack enough practice but I honestly doubt that. Many of us know how to fight well but little jukes and strafes give leeway for being hit when it comes to ping. If we don't lack practice and we're on virtually the same level, then ping is definitely going to twist the odds into the favor of the one with the better connection. Saying we don't have enough practice just assumes it's us and probably 1/2 the time it is but it is also possible the claim comes from the fact that we don't have enough practice, but rather an on par level with the opponent who may not have as great of a connection. To convey this, say there is people fighting a 1v1 with roughly the same skill level. Now it is very possible to beat someone with more skill level since it's more than just mechanical skill. The one with the better ping will obviously get a smaller advantage which I have seen cause a change in advantage. Skuhoo and ArcherSquid, for example, both have the same ping but since ArcherSquid is better skilled, he may win (as he did in both a duel and tourney).
The idea isn't to move the server no. If it was then this thread wouldn't exist.

 

[Thanielle]

I hardly ever have problems with ping and when I do its because the other three people in my houses decides it'll be fun to all watch netflix at the same time.

 

[SirMaltier]

this is more conquest oriented, and would essentially make ping worse, but I doubt it would effect you, living in the geographical location you do. (Don't want to say it since not sure if it's common knowledge)

 

[Zor95]

But how much can a death be attributed to someone having 20 less ping than you?

I PvP'd on Loka for years and was one of the best which is why I have the Gladiator title. This was before we started using potions so ping was equally as important as skill. As a result anyone with higher ping had to practice harder, but they could still beat anyone. If I remember correctly I had about 60 ping so there were plenty of people with lower ping than me.