Suggestion Ping Floor

[Mrp]

I agree with Malt here, at the highest level of play seconds do matter. That's why all NA LoL teams bootcamp in Korea before big events. When they are there they have less than 10 ping and they consistently talk about how much nicer it is and what a difference it makes. Much of the time they are going from 30-50 ping to like 7 and at their level of play they see a massive difference.

 

[Calixx_]

Mr. P, what you're talking about with Halo 2 is peer to peer hosting, which is entirely different from Loka, which is a dedicated server

Also I ask, is it fair they get benefits just because they're close?

I'm not saying it's fair, but that's just life. That's how ping works. Unless we all live in the same place, someone will have better ping, and someone will have worse ping.

Now this post was made for the assumption that ping is a factor in PvP, and I'm forced to now believe since your biggest part of your argument is that ping is not a factor, that you did not actually read the original thread.

I have read the original thread. I understand what you are saying. My counter-argument is that the effect of ping is being largely overstated, and I firmly stand by that. For the majority of players (who are in the US), ping differences are fairly negligible. For the international folks, and others with high ping, yes, it does become a factor at a certain point, but I argue that there is not a reasonable level to which you can raise someone's ping to make a more level playing field, without making the game worse for that person. I agree that it's not fair for people to have to play on crappy ping that makes it harder, but unfortunately life is not fair in that regard, and we can't control that. It is also unfair, however, to raise someone's ping to a level where it starts to effect their experience, something which is completely within our control. Otherwise, the point at which the difference between, say 15 and 50 ping becomes significant is in a situation where players are basically perfectly matched otherwise, so I see very little value in investing time into developing such a measure. I see very little merit in trying to minorly (or majorly) disadvantage others because some people are disadvantaged due to unavoidable circumstances.

I can personally testify to ping being a definite factor in PvP, in any game in fact. League of Legends for example as soon as I get better ping I ranked up, Loka DESPITE the 300 less fps I'm doing well in most conquest fights because of the ping I'm getting (39 from 46, thats a 7 ms difference).

This I cannot take to be anything other than a completely bold-faced lie, or a delusion on your part. The absolute lowest limits of human reaction time are not even 150ms, and that quick a reaction time is superhumanly fast. To claim that you can notice 7ms difference is not something that I can even begin to take seriously, unless you yourself are in fact, a computer.

I agree with Malt here, at the highest level of play seconds do matter. That's why all NA LoL teams bootcamp in Korea before big events. When they are there they have less than 10 ping and they consistently talk about how much nicer it is and what a difference it makes. Much of the time they are going from 30-50 ping to like 7 and at their level of play they see a massive difference.

What you're talking about here is bootcamping/playing on LAN, which is a 0 ping environment for all players, a significantly different phenomenon than online gaming.

 

[bat3415]

at their level of play they see a massive difference.

I want to really hammer this home here, as it is an important distinction, as well as the game they are playing, competitive games like CS and League, are fast paced and have some very quick actions in succession all determined by input of the player, whereas in conquest, yes there are certain fast actions such as potting and pearling, and possibly crit combos(though even that is flow due to the time between strikes) it is typically a much slower game on an individual level, in addition to this, there is another key point in this, "at their level of play," I don't mean to offend anyone here, but no one posting on this thread is near that level of play, I personally am skeptical that minecraft even has that level of play.

It's at a point where I will rather play with the .007 second difference than with my super computer at home

Once again Malt, sorry but I'm calling bullshit here, I'd take any fps gain over ping any day, and to claim that you'd rather have a worse computer(framerate and processing) with, again 7/1000ths of a second less latency is the most bullshit claim I think has ever been made on these forums.

"Tests with Air force pilots have shown, that they could identify the plane on a flashed picture that was flashed only for 1/220th of a second. That is identifying. So it's pretty safe to say, that recognizing, that SOME light was there is possible with 1/300th of a second."

Note, this is with FPS, not latency, though I'd argue that FPS is actually more distinguishable.

 

[Mrp]

Mr. P, what you're talking about with Halo 2 is peer to peer hosting, which is entirely different from Loka, which is a dedicated server

They don't have to be the same exact thing for me to make a point that the closer you are to the host the bigger advantages you receive especially if you are a great player. I was never saying they are the same, just relating to the issue from a different perspective. When my connection was better, I would destroy so much more than normal.

What you're talking about here is bootcamping/playing on LAN, which is a 0 ping environment for all players, a significantly different phenomenon than online gaming.

No, I am talking about solo queue. All LAN events are different for sure but there are environments like in Chicago (where league is hosted) or Korea where they have 5-7 ping in regular solo queue.

I want to really hammer this home here, as it is an important distinction, as well as the game they are playing, competitive games like CS and League, are fast paced and have some very quick actions in succession all determined by input of the player, whereas in conquest, yes there are certain fast actions such as potting and pearling, and possibly crit combos(though even that is flow due to the time between strikes) it is typically a much slower game on an individual level, in addition to this, there is another key point in this, "at their level of play," I don't mean to offend anyone here, but no one posting on this thread is near that level of play, I personally am skeptical that minecraft even has that level of play.

I guess I just don't agree that a moba is a faster paced game than minecraft pvp. In mc you are having to land consistent hits on a moving target while watching your health and buffs while also trying to land critical attacks. A moba has mechanical skill involved for sure but it is a game of objectives and decision making. There are intense moments where seconds matter for sure but I feel like the entirety of an mc duel requires second by second concentration. CS to me would be up there with mc with the intensity of the fighting and click accuracy.

 

[SirMaltier]

It's not a lie, and in fact can be proven by recent conquest fights. Look at my conquest fights, I went 1v4 versus Ldana, Gibbon, Corruptful, and Mtndew. I did that here on this internet with the 7/1000 difference. After that nomad fight, had another nomad fight, with me busco and time versus corruptful galaxy and red, they arguably had the skill advantage, and we fought them away from the tgen. I'd say part of that was my ability to press with the better ping, as fps wasn't a factor. Later on in the fight sku and bat also joined, me and archer and time then were able to press the attack onto you guys, and I'd say I only survived a round of combat with sku during that because of the ping advantage I had gained compared to before, and because of this I was able to go on to behead bat, which arguably changed the outcome of the entire fight.

and you guys are going based on reaction time, I'm not saying I'm physically reacting, do you guys think when you strafe? Do you think when you pot, when you eat? I'd assume no as I certainly don't these are instincts you build into yourself to enhance your PvP, and instinct is what is the biggest factor. I'd also definitely argue minecraft does have those necessities to be considered a high skill level game, potting, pot management, strafe, crits, combos, aim, ender pearling, bowing, debuffs, SO many things go into a good PvPer, it's difficult to say it can't be played, and I point to Sku and Archer both players with low ping who prove that it is.

 

[Mrp]

I'd say I only survived a round of combat with sku during that because of the ping advantage I had gained compared to before, and because of this I was able to go on to behead bat, which arguably changed the outcome of the entire fight.

While I think ping is an issue I don't know if you can just say that one reason is why you did well over another. When defending a tgen against even numbers the opponents have weakness, and lasers on them which could also have been a contributing factor in you fighting people away from your gen. I won a fight by myself against mason, arressm, and chess but I can't say it was because of my connection or skill, I simply had modules against a small force which grants a pretty massive advantage. I would be careful trying to paint any situation as black and white as ping being the only determining factor.

 

[SirMaltier]

this part of the fight took place at their attack pad, where they had the advantage of golems. I'm simply stating ping as the reasoning behind it due to the fact that I know in previous encounters I have died because of ping (shield not going up the instant you want it to being one big thing for me ping wise).

 

[SirMaltier]

Further I'd also like to state that I was just using those two as examples, ever since my first conquest fight on this internet, where I didn't have an Ethernet cable (230 ping my god) I've performed consistently well, if not scoring kills, then living till one of the last people. I've never particularly been bad, despite your side maybe calling me a "shitter" in conquest, I can point to the video bat took down of 4 people targeting me, and living, and other examples. Even then with that FPS advantage, (in my non Loka videos I use 5zig, you can see my FPS around 300-500, I've never played under 75 unless it was with over 1000 mobs in a grinder) I was unable to stand up to Sku in a meaningful way. Am I saying this ping allows me to 1v5 your best 5 pvpers? No, am I saying it lets me 1v1 Sku even and win? No. I am saying that it marks an improvement in play, and according to what I've seen of Loka that is not fair, as the server is all about fairness of people, which is why things like 5zig are not allowed.

 

[Mrp]

Ping being lower and FPS being higher have already been established as things that help in PvP. I was simply cautioning you with trying to make any situation be completely about ping when there are so many different factors. I totally agree that you having higher fps and lower ping will help you in fights and against top pvpers.

 

[SirMaltier]

I was leaning more towards not having high FPS anymore. For those that do not know, I play on a laptop for college, and so my FPS is much worse than at my parents house, however I get lower ping on average.

 

[Mrp]

Nope, malt is simply proposing a ping floor meaning it would only effect people with ping lower than 50.