Steve5729 betraying Djscales101 and stealing his items.

[Jammin_Mas]

To start off I'm writing this complaint on behalf of Djscales101 also known now as Alpha_Male101, and that I'm not only disgusted and disappointed in Steve5729 but also the covenant alliance as Im sure they know this occurred.

Djscales101 is one of the most respectable people Ive had the pleasure to meet on the server. He always has fun playing loka no matter the circumstance and I'm sure Nerdie can support this as he has been playing along time with nerdie before me (I met DJ when I met Nerdie). The point I'm trying to get across is DJ is a great kid who would never try to do anything malicious to someone else. I mean who else goes to conquest fights wielding nothing but a hoe?

Now the context of the story is I myself have been away for a couple months busy with school so I advised that my owners take this chance to explore other towns. In doing so Djscales joined New Pavis and Steve5729 for a period of time that recently took a turn for the worse. While in pavis he was a dedicated member going to conquest fights and helping level the town up 3 times, which when you reach level 18 gets very tough and longing. Dj was a dedicated member of the town and he was betrayed.

I warned DJ that town owners have to much power and how thankful I am that both my towns have had great leadership, so I told him to take caution in bringing his items to Pavis. Turns out he brought everything he owns! When I told DJ I would be playing this week he in-turn told Steve he was leaving and was betrayed and kicked by Steve without a chance to grab his items that he has spent tens of hours grinding for. This is unwarranted as every decent town would allow their members to collect their things.

Now I wouldn't be writing this much had DJ just lost a couple of shulkers, he probably lost more things than Steve had to begin with.

Steve Stole:

1. 15,000 shards
2. Two double-chests of Filled Shulker Boxes
3. 6 Double chests of Enchantment Books

Any player looking at the items Dj was not given the chance to grab can see that it was alot and something he spent alot of time grinding and working for. I realize in the past that there have been discussions to town owner abuse with a well written one by Otakubookworm and I feel this is a situation that needs admin intervention.

Here are two discussions had in the past:

Loka Forums

Official forums for the popular Loka Minecraft Server

www.lokamc.com

Suggestion - Town Owner Abuse

I've been on here for quite a while, and I realize that the way the rules are worded, owners can invite people just to kick them in order to obtain their belongings. I think especially with the wording in the rules as "16.1. A town owner technically has ownership over all items within it. (i.e...

lokamc.com

I believe that Dj (Alpha_Male101) should have his items fully given to him by the admin and elder team and that Steve5729 serve the same temp-ban that a normal town betrayer would serve. The two cases are no different, Steve is a long time player and knows what he was doing. It was a malicious and evil setup where he abused his power. @Cryptite @Magpieman

Below are my conversations with Dj that can be used as evidence.

*Dj First Joining Pavis*Djscales10102/10/2019Jam can i have ownerJammi - Pastebin.com

Pastebin.com is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.

pastebin.com

Read the chat and chest logs for Pavis, Dj did nothing wrong.

#JusticeforDJ

 

[Smp]

steve doesn't support the fallen so he needs to be punished+1

 

[koi0001]

Steve is really meant to be a respectable player so I feel as if it's unfair to really take sides before he makes a post defending himself.

EDIT: @Steve5729

 

[Sokou]

When I was a nomad once Steve invited me to his town and then proceeded to trap me underground with all my belongings on me, zoning the area so I couldn’t get out. To see this sort of action from a “well respected” player is very disappointing.
I believe this is an issue that needs to be adressed and the rules in place are not enough to protect nomads and their belongings

 

[koi0001]

“well respected”

He's a slicer, hence "well respected" I'm not defending his actions I'm just pointing out he's meant to b held to that standard essentially

 

[SigmaFlash]

If the staff thinks he is well respected player then they are wrong. He does scummy things that are within the rules like kick and kill. He should be given a punishment for taking a regular players item. #JusticeforDJ

 

[W_AlMusabPat_W]

Pure disgrace mate, if I catch steve the ends mans gonna get brapped you get me

 

[SilentStormSix]

I think not @Jammin_Mas

believe that Dj (Alpha_Male101) should have his items fully given to him by the admin and elder team and that Steve5729 serve the same temp-ban that a normal town betrayer would serve. The two cases are no different, Steve is a long time player and knows what he was doing. It was a malicious and evil setup where he abused his power.

 

[W_AlMusabPat_W]

In all seriousness though, things like this shouldn't be allowed to happen as it just promotes obnoxious behaviour from obnoxious players like Steve. DJ has genuinely never wronged anyone and is a very nice player who always strives to improve the community. The fact that people who aren't outstanding at PvP now have to essentially be fearful of being attacked as a result of simply wanting to change town defies everything LokaMC is supposed to promote as a server. It should be a rule that time must be allocated for one to retrieve their items without interference before leaving a town unless there was a point in which they explicitly stated that what was in the town was no longer their property by any means and intrinsically belonged to the town and not them, therefore making it theft, which in this instance, however, didn't occur. #JusticeForDJ #DisregardEthiopiansAcquireCurrency #MCPatFlynnOnTheMic

 

[Sokou]

He's a slicer, hence "well respected" I'm not defending his actions I'm just pointing out he's meant to b held to that standard essentially

Yes, meant to be. That’s why I put it in quotations. Just because he’s meant to be, does not mean he is.

 

[Steak__]

to be honest I do not like djscales but this is not acceptable steve should never have done this even though he knows what he does against the rules Steve should be punished for his actions and honestly, I think he has should be demoted because of all the things he has done even as a slicer. +1 from me

 

[W_AlMusabPat_W]

to be honest I do not like djscales but this is not acceptable steve should never have done this even though he knows what he does against the rules Steve should be punished for his actions and honestly, I think he has should be demoted because of all the things he has done even as a slicer. +1 from me

motheryar

 

[Wemb]

+1 steve is a blizzard and we dont need blizzards in this server

 

[Skuhoo]

I was with you up until you called for admin intervention and punishment. Like those two other posts you linked show, it is our continued stance that cases like this need to be regulated by the community, not by an impossible to enforce rule. In the context of our rules the town owner is explicitly the sole owner of all items and blocks within their town. Anything other than that would be an absolute nightmare to enforce. Trying to figure who's items belong to who when a member leaves or is kicked would literally be impossible.

I understand your frustration but we've been unable to find a good solution to this problem in the years it's been an issue. If anyone has a real, enforceable solution we're all ears but we won't punish a player for playing within the rules even if I, from a player's perspective, do disagree with their actions.

For reference from the rules:

 

[Thanielle]

I agree with Sku here, Steve's actions, as horrible as they are, aren't against the rules. The only thing you can really do is ask Steve to be a decent person and give the stuff back, it's unlikely to happen but it's the only thing that can actually happen.

 

[MasonMcBadbat]

If it has to be comminity enforcement, I'm down to join an embargo or any other measure I can to help press the issue. For that to work, we would need the *admin towns on board.
*Edit: Any towns that would prefer this to have some sort of counter measure.

 

[Pac_Man_]

I try not to get involved in these things, but I’d like to bring up a few points.

First off, the rule in this situation is pretty clear that Steve was within his rights as town owner here. If people don’t like that then offer solutions not complaints.

Secondly, calling for the rule to be changed and then having that rule retroactively enforced on Steve is a bit absurd. Again, this is a great situation to promote changing the rule, but punishing Steve for doing nothing wrong is not fair. It would also be a very poor precedent to set for future rules.

Third, I’m seeing a lot of people talking about Steve being or not being a “respectable player”. This is irrelevant. If someone broke a rule they should be held accountable regardless of status and public opinion. Likewise, Steve shouldn’t be held to a different standard and punished for something allowed be the rules* just because you don’t like the way he plays the game or because he’s slicer.*

Fourth, like Sku said, this is an issue enforced by the community. If you don’t like this behavior, discourage it. People can refuse to trade with Steve, they can retaliate raid him (although DJ will have to wait a bit on that from the sounds of it), you can not be in alliances with him, just do something to discourage this behavior other than demand the items be returned by admins.

Fifth, I feel like this is maybe better brought to admins in private, but I see why you posted it here. Overall it just creates needless drama doing it this way in my opinion.

Finally, I’d like to throw out a little solution I thought of for this. Let nomads do something called “soul-marking” or something to that effect. Basically you could soul-mark about 8 items or so (item stacks counting as one) and whenever you join a town these items are still considered yours, and if you are ever kicked from the town they are sent to your escrow chest. I have no idea how this would work in terms of raiding, (maybe a town lore clearing NPC removes soul marks too?) but something like this could be a happy medium.

I’m sorry to hear about your loss DJ, but sadly that’s how things work out sometimes. Until there’s a better way of dealing with this you just gotta be more careful who you trust.

Anyways that’s my two cents so thanks for reading, and I hope this helps with having a more meaningful dialogue about this. o/

*edited to clarify based on Koi and Sokou’s bellow comments.

 

[Sokou]

I try not to get involved in these things, but I’d like to bring up a few points.

First off, the rule in this situation is pretty clear that Steve was within his rights as town owner here. If people don’t like that then offer solutions not complaints.

Secondly, calling for the rule to be changed and then having that rule retroactively enforced on Steve is a bit absurd. Again, this is a great situation to promote changing the rule, but punishing Steve for doing nothing wrong is not fair. It would also be a very poor precedent to set for future rules.

Third, I’m seeing a lot of people talking about Steve being or not being a “respectable player”. This is irrelevant. If someone broke a rule they should be held accountable regardless of status and public opinion. Likewise Steve shouldn’t be held to a different standard just because you don’t like the way he plays the game.

Fourth, like Sku said, this is an issue enforced by the community. If you don’t like this behavior, discourage it. People can refuse to trade with Steve, they can retaliate raid him (although DJ will have to wait a bit on that from the sounds of it), you can not be in alliances with him, just do something to discourage this behavior.

Fifth, I feel like this is maybe better brought to admins in private, but I see why you posted it here. Overall it just creates needless drama doing it this way in my opinion.

Finally, I’d like to throw out a little solution I thought of for this. Let nomads do something called “soul-marking” or something to that effect. Basically you could soul-mark about 8 items or so (item stacks counting as one) and whenever you join a town these items are still considered yours, and if you are ever kicked from town they are sent to your escrow chest. I have no idea how this would work in terms of raiding, (maybe a town lore clearing NPC removes soul marks too?) but something like this could be a happy medium.

I’m sorry to here about your loss DJ, but sadly that’s how things work out sometimes. Until there’s a better way of dealing with this you just gotta be more careful who you trust.

Anyways that’s my two cents so thanks for reading, and I hope this helps with having a more meaningful dialogue about this. o/

I agree with the majority of the points you have made here, however:

"If someone broke a rule they should be held accountable regardless of status and public opinion. Likewise Steve shouldn’t be held to a different standard just because you don’t like the way he plays the game."
Although I understand the main basis of your opinion here, the matter still stands that Steve has the Slicer rank on Loka. In the forum post which describes the role of slicer and expected conduct of this rank, it clearly states:

• Slicers are expected to set a good example for other players by closely following all the rules and being a friendly, helpful member of the community.

I believe that Steve's actions strongly go against the conduct expected of a slicer rank, and therefore I also believe that he should be held to a different standard than other players. He is meant to set an example for other members of the community and his actions reflect on the Loka community as a whole.

 

[koi0001]

Sokou really said it perfectly, I don't believe anybody ever suggested he shouldn't be held accountable because of his rank.

 

[W_AlMusabPat_W]

I was with you up until you called for admin intervention and punishment. Like those two other posts you linked show, it is our continued stance that cases like this need to be regulated by the community, not by an impossible to enforce rule. In the context of our rules the town owner is explicitly the sole owner of all items and blocks within their town. Anything other than that would be an absolute nightmare to enforce. Trying to figure who's items belong to who when a member leaves or is kicked would literally be impossible.

I understand your frustration but we've been unable to find a good solution to this problem in the years it's been an issue. If anyone has a real, enforceable solution we're all ears but we won't punish a player for playing within the rules even if I, from a player's perspective, do disagree with their actions.

For reference from the rules:

Yeah but with that logic, I could literally invite you to my town, kill you, take your stuff, and then do this to more and more people until they quit, even if I was a slicer. Surely this requires a rule change, and in the instance that the rules are altered, Steve should be punished and be the first example of these rules being implemented as he knew it was borderline anyway