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Town Betrayal rules rework

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ThePigGang

ThePigGang

Well-Known Member
Guardian
In the light of a recent situation regarding town betrayal a topic was brought up about how the rules in place may need tweaking.

As it stands right now it is within the rules to seize a new town member's belongings regardless if the belongings were acquired before they joined the town or after. I believe this is just and fair because it reinforces the idea to people to join towns that they will be safe in and to not make stupid decisions. The problem arises when they try to leave a town with their items but then are reported for town betrayal for taking their belongings. It should go both ways, if it's allowed to have your belongings taken and be kicked from a town you should also be able to leave a town with your things without receiving a punishment for doing so.

Obviously majority of the time actual town betrayal is occurring and punishment should be given out, this is just referencing specific cases where someone is getting scummed by a tyrannical town owner. I do not wish to directly quote Fatal as he can speak for himself but in response to the situation he mentioned that these types of town betrayals happen a lot hence why I started this thread.

For better understanding here is an example question:

"Should Cryptite(Town Owner) be able to get Magpieman(Town Member) potentially punished if Magpieman leaves Cryptite's town with Magpieman's own belongings?"


There would need to be a criteria for what makes something one "owns belongings" and I think a good place to start would be if they joined the town with those items it is their own belongings.

I hope you guys can civilly deliver your thoughts on the matter. Thank you.

~5
 
Magpieman

Magpieman

Old One
Staff member
Old One
ThePigGang said:
As it stands right now it is within the rules to seize a new town member's belongings regardless if the belongings were acquired before they joined the town or after. I believe this is just and fair because it reinforces the idea to people to join towns that they will be safe in and to not make stupid decisions. The problem arises when they try to leave a town with their items but then are reported for town betrayal for taking their belongings. It should go both ways, if it's allowed to have your belongings taken and be kicked from a town you should also be able to leave a town with your things without receiving a punishment for doing so.
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This sounds great on paper but in practice is impossible to enforce. We cannot track down or prove who owns what items which is why the rules are as they are. We can (and do) use common sense and try to allow people to keep personally lored items and sometimes items in a personal room. But even then the player could have taken items from communal storage and bring them to their personal room.

ThePigGang said:
There would need to be a criteria for what makes something one "owns belongings" and I think a good place to start would be if they joined the town with those items it is their own belongings.
Click to expand...
This is the crux of the matter. How do we 'tag' or denote ownership of an item? Items change hands so often and quickly tracking them with logs is not feasible. The rules are the way they are because we have yet to come up with the answer to this.

One idea we have is to provide all players with a bonus ender chest that can only be accessed at spawn. This way players could store their most valuable possessions and risk losing less when they get into disagreements with a town owner.
 
SigmaFlash

SigmaFlash

Well-Known Member
Slicer
Magpieman said:
This sounds great on paper but in practice is impossible to enforce. We cannot track down or prove who owns what items which is why the rules are as they are. We can (and do) use common sense and try to allow people to keep personally lored items and sometimes items in a personal room. But even then the player could have taken items from communal storage and bring them to their personal room.


This is the crux of the matter. How do we 'tag' or denote ownership of an item? Items change hands so often and quickly tracking them with logs is not feasible. The rules are the way they are because we have yet to come up with the answer to this.

One idea we have is to provide all players with a bonus ender chest that can only be accessed at spawn. This way players could store their most valuable possessions and risk losing less when they get into disagreements with a town owner.
Click to expand...
pls echest 2 now
 
Zachary_N_Kaleno

Zachary_N_Kaleno

Well-Known Member
Sentry
Community Rep
Magpieman said:
One idea we have is to provide all players with a bonus ender chest that can only be accessed at spawn. This way players could store their most valuable possessions and risk losing less when they get into disagreements with a town owner.
Click to expand...
Unless if the chest is small or only accepts 32 stacks of shards, and some lores, I feel this would be similar to allowing players to having shulkers in their E-chest. I feel like the entirety of your wealth (Echest, and the new chest idea) shouldn't be kept in what's basically an offshore Aladran Bank account.
 
SilentStormSix

SilentStormSix

Well-Known Member
Sentry
Zachary_N_Kaleno said:
Unless if the chest is small or only accepts 32 stacks of shards, and some lores, I feel this would be similar to allowing players to having shulkers in their E-chest. I feel like the entirety of your wealth (Echest, and the new chest idea) shouldn't be kept in what's basically an offshore Aladran Bank account.
Click to expand...
Why shouldn't everyone have a safe place for their stuff?
 
Lurnn

Lurnn

Well-Known Member
Slicer
imo it should remain, dont join a town if you dont trust the owner, thats the risk you take, some owners may argue x player only has x stuff because the owner gave them gear and pots and pearls and food to be able to do so, therefore it is owed to the owner, the list of reasons go on, just dont join a town you dont trust, second echest sounds cool
 
DevvyVR

DevvyVR

Active Member
Muted
Vescure said:
ThePigGang said:
In the light of a recent situation regarding town betrayal a topic was brought up about how the rules in place may need tweaking.

As it stands right now it is within the rules to seize a new town member's belongings regardless if the belongings were acquired before they joined the town or after. I believe this is just and fair because it reinforces the idea to people to join towns that they will be safe in and to not make stupid decisions. The problem arises when they try to leave a town with their items but then are reported for town betrayal for taking their belongings. It should go both ways, if it's allowed to have your belongings taken and be kicked from a town you should also be able to leave a town with your things without receiving a punishment for doing so.

Obviously majority of the time actual town betrayal is occurring and punishment should be given out, this is just referencing specific cases where someone is getting scummed by a tyrannical town owner. I do not wish to directly quote Fatal as he can speak for himself but in response to the situation he mentioned that these types of town betrayals happen a lot hence why I started this thread.

For better understanding here is an example question:

"Should Cryptite(Town Owner) be able to get Magpieman(Town Member) potentially punished if Magpieman leaves Cryptite's town with Magpieman's own belongings?"


There would need to be a criteria for what makes something one "owns belongings" and I think a good place to start would be if they joined the town with those items it is their own belongings.

I hope you guys can civilly deliver your thoughts on the matter. Thank you.

~5
Click to expand...
i really like the idea of a new rework but the situation that you are basing this on was a little more different
quick explanation of the situation: subowner X grinds for player Y's town. When player X wants to leave, they take all of the items from owner storage that they "grinded" to take with them to the next town they join.
Person X who will remain anonymous, (you know them) took brewing mats from owner storage that they "grinded". If this rule were to be implemented, it would have 0 effect on this players ban since they took stuff from owner storage that they didnt have perms to take. If the situation was like your example question, I would agree with you.
Click to expand...
 
Tedzi_

Tedzi_

Active Member
i think that personal lores/lores in general shouldnt be allowed to be taken by the town owner
 
Lurnn

Lurnn

Well-Known Member
Slicer
Tedzi_ said:
i think that personal lores/lores in general shouldnt be allowed to be taken by the town owner
Click to expand...
I agree that they shouldn't be allowed to be called "Town Betrayal" on however what of the situation where a player joins, puts there stuff and gets removed?
I don't see how hard it is to just only join a town with those that are trustworthy or your friends, don't be so downbad for pvp and just go with a decent town lol
 
Tedzi_

Tedzi_

Active Member
Lurnn said:
I agree that they shouldn't be allowed to be called "Town Betrayal" on however what of the situation where a player joins, puts there stuff and gets removed?
I don't see how hard it is to just only join a town with those that are trustworthy or your friends, don't be so downbad for pvp and just go with a decent town lol
Click to expand...
i agree with what you say fully, just wanted to say that personal lores should be exempt from the town betrayal rule
 
Lurnn

Lurnn

Well-Known Member
Slicer
Tedzi_ said:
i agree with what you say fully, just wanted to say that personal lores should be exempt from the town betrayal rule
Click to expand...
I was moreso pointing out a fault in the whole system I suppose, even if perse we said personal lores are exempt, I was stating that the town betrayal rule is one thing, a town Owner can still rob you whilst you are in their town and that's the risk you play, you probably understood just fine but it was more to point out to others that although your lore can't be called town betray on it can still be lost

anyways that personal echest business for lore sounds cool and I hope that gets added so this isn't even really a problem, everyone knows that lokas staff least favourite thing to deal with is town betrayals (lead them to adding the strike system) and it's obviously not fun! I know myself from administrating on other networks that tracking down items in the way they do is sometimes nearly impossible, other times easy enough but sometimes quite hard
 
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