Towns and chests protection.

[Toiongo]

I'll go straight to the point, protection as it is right now is too much for decent action in my opinion, and that's why:

- Protection. Ender pearls are disabled, this means the only way to get in a town surrounded by walls without permission is to use a TNT cannon, and that's only an option if the town doesn't have protection that goes far beyond town's walls. Of course, you could try to use a nether portal to get around, but it's possible for settlers to simply make one inside and block it as they go in and out.

- Covered chests. And no, ability to open them if they're covered isn't going to change anything, people won't even have to hide them, they'll simply place them behind protected walls, placing signs on those if they want storage to be public. Brake a block, take stuff, cover the hole and you're never going to be robbed unless a traitor comes by.

- Traps. It's easy to get in a situation where it is impossible to escape without teleporting, because of a protection. Nether portals are a nice example, but it's not limited to them.

- Tension. Should you join a protected settlement and fear for you possesions is gone. I remember coming to the Artifact for the first time... in a town, there was always feeling of suspense from random raider attacks, and before that there was even a greater fear for items i've collected and had on me and for safety of hideouts i've made. I think that this is what it should be about, a harsh, dangerous world with no place to hide. Fight for survival or be killed and robbed of everything you've got.

"Survive or be killed. Horde and hide or be poor. Defend or die." - Loka's description on one of MC server lists. Seriously, how does that go with what server is right now ?




Anyway, i'd like to hear everyone's opinions on that so we can discuss a solution to those problems.

 

[JocelynReed]

No town protection is too extreme

we need to protect the stupid to some degree

there needs to be a balance between what thieves can do and how towns can protect themselves.

 

[Toiongo]

No town protection is too extreme

we need to protect the stupid to some degree

there needs to be a balance between what thieves can do and how towns can protect themselves.

Well, as of right now, there ain't such a balance. Attackers are too limited, they don't stand a chance of getting anything out of town unless there's a traitor inside - and even that would mean him getting exposed and expelled and only one, even successful attack, won't do much at all.

In my opinion we have too much towns right now, "the stupid" should join a bigger force if they need the protection so much, it'd even make sense and some nice opportunities for 'factions' PVP. Bigger settlements will try to get smaller ones nearby under they control, because right now they can only stand and watch how smaller ones are getting all the resources around for themselves and limiting their territory and influence.

There has to be done something about the protection, if not removing it - then changing it drastically.

 

[Mtndome]

Toi has a bit of an idea. Instead of letting every tom, dick, and harry make a gen, why not make an established town sponsor them? That way- we keep all of the crap towns to a minimum, it will build alliances throughout Loka, and they should vie for a town that is under what they want. E.g. Power, knowledge, etc. That way, they are grandfathered in, as opposed to, Herp Derp, Magpie, Eim makern a terwn!

 

[adderman500]

No town protection is too extreme

It wasn't in the good ole' days.

we need to protect the stupid to some degree

Why? The weak must be destroyed, for that is the nature of survival and in turn Darwinism, which this server used to thrive upon.

 

[mopb3]

I think I have an alternate idea to simply totally removing it, and mtn that idea really doesn't get to the root of what Toi is saying here, but rather punishes noobs against pre-setup players.

The filthy capitalist dogs have all the wealth stored away in their castles! We the people must rise up and take this from them!

 

[Toiongo]

The filthy capitalist dogs have all the wealth stored away in their castles! We the people must rise up and take this from them!

After all yes ! It will give a chance for small towns to grow and will give them ability to fight those who they can't overcome in construction or wealth.

...it will build alliances throughout Loka, and they should vie for a town that is under what they want. E.g. Power, knowledge, etc...

Some of the players here already have an experience of doing that in case of a war. Newbies, instead of making week-lasting towns of their own, will actually think more before attempting such a thing, they'll either make a town with serious intentions or they'll join already existing settlements and help other people out.

 

[Psychedelic98]

Changes would be nice, but completely removing protection isn't the way to go.

 

[Cryptite]

I'm agreement with Psy here. We've simply had generators for far too long now for us to totally remove them.

Whatever semblance of complete anarchy and lack of structure that there was in the first days of this server are gone and, for better or for worse, they will never return. I'm not terribly fond of the opinions that there is a complete imbalance between thievery and town protection. While I will admit that town protection is currently more poignant than the ease of invading a town, those that claim it is impossible or far too difficult either aren't good at it, or don't like the fact that it takes skill and cunning to do so.

Sure, some towns can be made impregnable, but it takes vast resources and time to do it. I think the biggest issue right now is that towns cannot fall or fail under any circumstance other than running out of emeralds. The safeguards that are meant to ensure that indeed not every herp, derp and Magpie, have not yet been put into place so once a town exists, it's permanent, even if only one of the original three members still lives there.

The reason town protection has to exist is that, unlike in the real world, people don't have 24/7 guard-watch and this is a game that people play for fun and on their free time. We don't all have infinite free-time and thus we log out and aren't online at all times. As a result, without protection, whether you hide your things or not, they will be found, and all any thief has to do is just wait for you to be offline and then just dig around they find your things. Town protection may remove the ability to easily be able to steal other people's loot, but I argue that towns add so many more dynamics to this server (like trading, power grabs, raiding, backstabbing, alliances, etc) that not to have them would reduce the server's popularity to the 20 or so of us who could enjoy the idea of absolute vanilla minecraft.

Pardon the massive diatribe, but like Psy said, there do need to be changes, but removing protection or even changing it drastically is not an option.

 

[Mtndome]

I don't care if we change it or not. I'm mainly here to build. But I do think we should have some sort of Process to allow one to start a town. Like having sponsorship or something. This would also help newer players find like-minded individuals to start a town. In opposition of mahps statement, I think that newer players should be somewhat limited, in comparison to the older players. We have been on the server for a long time and have gathered resources, played the politics, bribed assistance from older players. Newer players should do the same.

I myself have seen the effect of a great town idea fall through the cracks because I couldn't find any like-minded individuals. It would also bring newer players together, either with other new player, or with the older players. Towns would thrive more because they would have seen how an active Lokian town works. Rules, farms, protection, etc. Many of these towns lack basic knowledge that us older players have earned through trial and error.

Therefore, I think to allow more towns to thrive, and make a better Loka, restrictions on town making (at least for gen protection) should be place.

(I can put this in its own thread if need be. )

 

[Artagan]

I'll go straight to the point, protection as it is right now is too much for decent action in my opinion, and that's why:

- Protection. Ender pearls are disabled, this means the only way to get in a town surrounded by walls without permission is to use a TNT cannon, and that's only an option if the town doesn't have protection that goes far beyond town's walls. Of course, you could try to use a nether portal to get around, but it's possible for settlers to simply make one inside and block it as they go in and out.

- Covered chests. And no, ability to open them if they're covered isn't going to change anything, people won't even have to hide them, they'll simply place them behind protected walls, placing signs on those if they want storage to be public. Brake a block, take stuff, cover the hole and you're never going to be robbed unless a traitor comes by.

- Traps. It's easy to get in a situation where it is impossible to escape without teleporting, because of a protection. Nether portals are a nice example, but it's not limited to them.

- Tension. Should you join a protected settlement and fear for you possesions is gone. I remember coming to the Artifact for the first time... in a town, there was always feeling of suspense from random raider attacks, and before that there was even a greater fear for items i've collected and had on me and for safety of hideouts i've made. I think that this is what it should be about, a harsh, dangerous world with no place to hide. Fight for survival or be killed and robbed of everything you've got.

"Survive or be killed. Horde and hide or be poor. Defend or die." - Loka's description on one of MC server lists. Seriously, how does that go with what server is right now ?




Anyway, i'd like to hear everyone's opinions on that so we can discuss a solution to those problems.

Toi is right. It should be all or nothing. We either remove protection entirely and put everyone on equal, extremely unstable and dangerous ground, or keep it and maintain anti-raiding and thieving measures.

We need to decide once and for all what this server is really supposed to be like to play on.

 

[mopb3]

Or we find a mid ground, and implement some kinda system by if town members are online you can declare a raid on them and protection would be taken down for as long as they're online (and a bit longer for if they rage-quit) with normal griefing rules applying, or could have some system of rollback after the event.

You know that doesn't sound like a bad idea actually... Means thieves are gonna have to hide if they don't feel secure in their ability to defend their things.

Gotta work on balancing though if we ever did think of using that, could be hella overpowered one way or the other.

 

[Zor95]

I dislike any kind of idea that either forces players to live together or that adds a requirement such as a sponsorship/x amount of players to activate a generator. Some players like to live alone or with a single friend. That's how they feel they work best and that's how they have the most fun. If that's creativity to them then let them be creative.

 

[Artagan]

I just brought this up on the server, and got quite a severe response. The people on the server, including mag, apparently do not want to be on a server where "survive or die" is enforced. They like their comforts and their crutches, they like being able to do what they want and never look over their shoulder. Surviving is easy for them. As mag said, the old server ideas are history and outdated, and Minecraft has changed along with the server. Meaning that, since the game has changed with updates, logically we should ignore our old concepts about survival of the fittest. Makes perfect sense.

Mag, you're a great admin, the best I've ever known. But keeping things easy isn't what the server is supposed to be about.

 

[Magpieman]

This thread is a load of rubbish. Gens are staying, learn to live with it or leave the server. That is all.

 

[Zor95]

I just brought this up on the server, and got quite a severe response. The people on the server, including mag, apparently do not want to be on a server where "survive or die" is enforced. They like their comforts and their crutches, they like being able to do what they want and never look over their shoulder. Surviving is easy for them. As mag said, the old server ideas are history and outdated, and Minecraft has changed along with the server. Meaning that, since the game has changed with updates, logically we should ignore our old concepts about survival of the fittest. Makes perfect sense.

Mag, you're a great admin, the best I've ever known. But keeping things easy isn't what the server is supposed to be about.

Thieves will never be in the majority. They should never be in the majority.

However, if that is the case and we need no longer fear anything then this basically becomes a creative server. This greatest challenge would lie in finding diamonds for tools. The server was like this when I first joined. For the past several months there had been no raiding or theft or PvP other than the occasional arranged match or some RP with Drixan. People were getting bored and leaving to find more interesting servers. They wanted some violence and fear.

Anyways, yeah. It isn't too unbalanced at the moment and we don't want to push for extremes from either side. Thieves could perhaps use one more minor addition and builders could really use the End.

 

[mopb3]

This thread is a load of rubbish. Gens are staying, learn to live with it or leave the server. That is all.

Can't just say that Mag, everything changes with time

 

[adderman500]

This thread is a load of rubbish. Gens are staying, learn to live with it or leave the server. That is all.

I'm afraid you can't reject a poll which expresses a great request for the changing of protection. Don't get stuck in old ways or our experience on Loka will never evolve

 

[Magpieman]

Its the same small group of people, the rest of the server like gens. Adder, mop, toi and art, you are on your own. Just because you are some of the only people active on the forums does not mean this is the servers view. So as i said before there is no debate to be had. You are simply wasting your own time debating here because gens are not going anywhere.

 

[Psychedelic98]

Its the same small group of people, the rest of the server like gens. Adder, mop, toi and art, you are on your own. Just because you are some of the only people active on the forums does not mean this is the servers view. So as i said before there is no debate to be had. You are simply wasting your own time debating here because gens are not going anywhere.

The majority of the server thinks something needs to change. Removing protection completely isn't the answer, but reducing protection or removing some of the nerfs would be nice.