Changes to Town Betrayal

[SayreSlayer]

would probably depend whether or not you had an accessible storage or not. safest option would be to have members ask you when in need of a new set. It would be much better if we had the ability to make rules on what our town members were allowed to take or not, every town is different in aspects and such things like pearls wouldn't be as plentiful. It would seem we keep our own things safe, but if we could make blatant rules there should be no reason it isn't town betrayal

i know it would be safer and i think sets personally shouldnt be refunded but i think if it extremely clear what will be strikeworthy and wont it would allow us to zone according to these rules and not being hurt by them. although you would probably change after 1 strike regardless, it makes your town more vulnerable to getting that 3 strike death

 

[FoxyBearGames]

The simple answer to this all is to just stop recruiting hundreds of people that you don't know if you can trust or not or to begin using zoning more efficiently. Zoning and the likes is all in place to prevent newer players from stealing from your town, I think it's just a matter of using it correctly for the majority of towns.

 

[Cryptite]

One thing we will likely do for first town-betrayals is help to educate towns about Zoning. Education is really the biggest issue here, not the sudden decision to stop after 3 strikes. Additionally, some warning messages for new players about town betrayal (like if they take items out of a chest or something) will help.

Zoning isn't too difficult when you do basic stuff, but it is a bit of a pain to manage, we agree. Some minor QoL for zone management is in the works.

The simple answer to this all is to just stop recruiting hundreds of people that you don't know if you can trust or not or to begin using zoning more efficiently. Zoning and the likes is all in place to prevent newer players from stealing from your town, I think it's just a matter of using it correctly for the majority of towns.

This is blunt, but basically we agree 100%

 

[FoxyBearGames]

One thing we will likely do for first town-betrayals is help to educate towns about Zoning. Education is really the biggest issue here, not the sudden decision to stop after 3 strikes. Additionally, some warning messages for new players about town betrayal (like if they take items out of a chest or something) will help.

Zoning isn't too difficult when you do basic stuff, but it is a bit of a pain to manage, we agree. Some minor QoL for zone management is in the works.


This is blunt, but basically we agree 100%

Adding a tip in that warns players about the risk of town betrayal after they take more valuable items out of chests could help a lot I think/also just generally spitting this tip out when players are in their town.

 

[SayreSlayer]

Can someone just tell me what we have to zone and not have to zone instead of talking about how we shouldn't recruit players when this entire change was made so that as loka grows (with more players) you don't have to do as many TB investigations

"Consider that Loka will only continue to grow. It makes sense then that the frequency of town betrayal will grow as well. We cannot be spending all of our time on town betrayal. (And also I don't want to)."

 

[TheFreshLemon]

Can someone just tell me what we have to zone and not have to zone instead of talking about how we shouldn't recruit players when this entire change was made so that as loka grows (with more players) you don't have to do as many TB investigations

"Consider that Loka will only continue to grow. It makes sense then that the frequency of town betrayal will grow as well. We cannot be spending all of our time on town betrayal. (And also I don't want to)."

They're saying that Loka is defiantly going to grow while we restrict recruiting. Yes. and since they're failing to understand what you're asking I believe what Pingo is trying to ask is what will be illegal to take from a said chest and what will not be. Items like Pearls and pots are usually public in towns specifically conquest ones, while other things not so much, but will taking pearls and pots still be town betrayal or up for grabs for level I's.

 

[SayreSlayer]

They're saying that Loka is defiantly going to grow while we restrict recruiting. Yes. and since they're failing to understand what you're asking I believe what Pingo is trying to ask is what will be illegal to take from a said chest and what will not be. Items like Pearls and pots are usually public in towns specifically conquest ones, while other things not so much, but will taking pearls and pots still be town betrayal or up for grabs for level I's.

^

 

[Sparky___]

Nothing about what constitutes town betrayal is changing. Unsure where the confusion on these items is coming.

Stealing anything from your town is town betrayal/against the rules.

To be clear, these strikes will not be applied every time we resolve a town betrayal report. It will only happen when there has been clear negligence. If we feel there has been a lack of care from the owner we will explain why and what to do to prevent it going forward.

Basically as I understand it, if I have to go track down items that got stolen from you, because you were lazy and didn't zone it (and that would have prevented the issue entirely), that's when it becomes an issue.

 

[SayreSlayer]

we r asking what items we are allowed to NOT ZONE for convenience in conquest that would still be refunded without a strike unless we are expected to pot up 90+ people manually every warp

 

[Sparky___]

we r asking what items we are allowed to NOT ZONE for convenience in conquest unless we are expected to pot up 40 people manually every warp

Again we will use discretion but you can certainly take measures to restrict how much level 1 members have access to. The point is we need to put some of the responsibility back on towns.

We have a lot of experience with town betrayal issues. When it comes to conquest related materials, especially in conquest oriented towns, it becomes incredibly obvious that there is only so much reasonable zoning a town owner can do.

I don't think there is a need for a specific list of items that are just always going to be returned, that's not really how this works. You can easily zone your conquest stuff and still have it available to the people you want it to be available to. My own war room is zoned, but anyone in my town can access the items (potions, food, pearls, shields) they need to prepare for a fight. That being said, if someone were to take a bunch of it and dip, that would still be town betrayal. Like I mentioned above, we are fairly GOOD at being able to use our brains and distinguish between not zoning because lazy, don't care, or whatnot, and keeping the stuff around your beacon accessible for fights.

 

[MoistP]

I don't think there is a need for a specific list of items that are just always going to be returned, that's not really how this works. You can easily zone your conquest stuff and still have it available to the people you want it to be available to. My own war room is zoned, but anyone in my town can access the items (potions, food, pearls, shields) they need to prepare for a fight. That being said, if someone were to take a bunch of it and dip, that would still be town betrayal. Like I mentioned above, we are fairly GOOD at being able to use our brains and distinguish between not zoning because lazy, don't care, or whatnot, and keeping the stuff around your beacon accessible for fights.

yet if you zone war items(pots pearls food) and open it when theres a fight, theres always people (like the person i reported and you deleted the report) that steals shulkers worth of stuff from it and leaves the town after stealing it.

 

[FroggyFruit1357]

The simple answer to this all is to just stop recruiting hundreds of people that you don't know

So what you said here is because we're bringing new people to the server we're not getting help with the off chance someone does a town betrayal?

I've made more than a few reports in my years of playing for them to just be ignored. The system for town betrayal I feel needs much more ticket/response type feel to it instead of I type in a Minecraft command and wait for something to happen or I forget about it. Lost literally had a player's account compromised and lose tons of items, ranging from valuables to lore at the end of August 2020, and still has gotten very very little communication from the staff team on it.

I also think that what constitutes a "town betrayal" needs to be more clearly defined. I already had the equinox thing happen where a sub-owner did the betrayal, if something like that happened with items, not really sure how you can punish a town for it. Another thing is, it's INSANELY easy to break through current zones. Lost and Doulk stole some of my lore swords as a joke from my house back in New Fruit, and without using any of their perms to get inside, piston raided me something like 10-16 blocks away, despite the zone being SIGNIFICANTLY larger than the building itself. Zones themselves are flawed in that they really don't provide any protection except pearling and breaking. I would quite honestly be for preventing town members from opening storages in higher-level zones to some extent. I would encourage the LCRs to take that suggestion into account.

Months ago on the SOTS, I remember perms per zone being talked about pretty extensively. Where tf are they? Something like a war room being able to pearl around and place shulkers is necessary but I can't have block protection too? I know I could definitely use a feature like this zoning the hallways making it so piston raiding isn't possible, essentially eliminating any town betrayal cases from any normal members, but I can't zone for only block protection because you aren't able to pearl otherwise.

I've already heard from both major alliances that they're planning to send people to go get strikes on other towns so they can just get insided. And assuming the strike system is upheld, you're gonna have WAY more town betrayals on your hands than you did before. And I doubt anything will happen about it until Eneria or Eldritch gets their strikes (if at all lmao)

Overall, I think it's pretty ignorant to punish players or downright refuse that you uphold the rules that you made just because it's too much work from the admins. Instead of waiting for items to spread out over MONTHS of waiting, make a system to put them on hold until a decision is made, or maybe, just MAYBE, respond to a case in a timely manner.

 

[Magpieman]

There appears to be a lack of reading/understanding happening in this thread. I will repost what I wrote in the original thread:

"To be clear, these strikes will not be applied every time we resolve a town betrayal report. It will only happen when there has been clear negligence."

This change will not affect the majority of you. This is purely to prevent abuse of the system, which was happening from select individuals. Giving fighters access to potions is very different from them having access to owners storage. We will communicate with owners if we feel there are problems with how they have things are set up but in most cases, things will continue as normal.

 

[FoxyBearGames]

So what you said here is because we're bringing new people to the server we're not getting help with the off chance someone does a town betrayal?

I've made more than a few reports in my years of playing for them to just be ignored. The system for town betrayal I feel needs much more ticket/response type feel to it instead of I type in a Minecraft command and wait for something to happen or I forget about it. Lost literally had a player's account compromised and lose tons of items, ranging from valuables to lore at the end of August 2020, and still has gotten very very little communication from the staff team on it.

I also think that what constitutes a "town betrayal" needs to be more clearly defined. I already had the equinox thing happen where a sub-owner did the betrayal, if something like that happened with items, not really sure how you can punish a town for it. Another thing is, it's INSANELY easy to break through current zones. Lost and Doulk stole some of my lore swords as a joke from my house back in New Fruit, and without using any of their perms to get inside, piston raided me something like 10-16 blocks away, despite the zone being SIGNIFICANTLY larger than the building itself. Zones themselves are flawed in that they really don't provide any protection except pearling and breaking. I would quite honestly be for preventing town members from opening storages in higher-level zones to some extent. I would encourage the LCRs to take that suggestion into account.

Months ago on the SOTS, I remember perms per zone being talked about pretty extensively. Where tf are they? Something like a war room being able to pearl around and place shulkers is necessary but I can't have block protection too? I know I could definitely use a feature like this zoning the hallways making it so piston raiding isn't possible, essentially eliminating any town betrayal cases from any normal members, but I can't zone for only block protection because you aren't able to pearl otherwise.

I've already heard from both major alliances that they're planning to send people to go get strikes on other towns so they can just get insided. And assuming the strike system is upheld, you're gonna have WAY more town betrayals on your hands than you did before. And I doubt anything will happen about it until Eneria or Eldritch gets their strikes (if at all lmao)

Overall, I think it's pretty ignorant to punish players or downright refuse that you uphold the rules that you made just because it's too much work from the admins. Instead of waiting for items to spread out over MONTHS of waiting, make a system to put them on hold until a decision is made, or maybe, just MAYBE, respond to a case in a timely manner.

Going to second Mag on this one generally, but you do make a good point on your suggestions for how you should be able to have finer control over some aspects of zoning and if the system ever is updated (which it is more than likely going to be at one point or another) I would also like to see those changes. I could definitely see a GUI for it all, as well as zone "types" which could be a way to make templates of permissions for your zones. In the meantime, making the feather show zone borders should definitely help. And again, the admins will for the most part use common sense and only strike people when they didn't at all try to use the system properly and I imagine for most this won't be an issue.

 

[FroggyFruit1357]

Still unmentioned so far is how you plan to better how the staff handles town betrayals. There's a severe lack of communication and that I think we'd all like answers for. Having to bug staff for months is pretty ridiculous.

 

[koi0001]

Still unmentioned so far is how you plan to better how the staff handles town betrayals. There's a severe lack of communication and that I think we'd all like answers for. Having to bug staff for months is pretty ridiculous.

I cant speak for staff in that regard but I feel like you need to remember there's only so many staff members and even so they work for free, not to mention there's only so many active staff members.

 

[Cryptite]

I cant speak for staff in that regard but I feel like you need to remember there's only so many staff members and even so they work for free, not to mention there's only so many active staff members.

Correct. It's a bandwidth issue. This change is meant to make it so Staff aren't as overburdened.

If you feel you are up to the task and would like to help with our backlog of admin tasks and reports, this is what Guardian Applications are for. Loka is a human-run Minecraft server and not a corporation with significant Community Service resources. Sometimes you do just have to bug us because we are often investigating and handling a lot in the background.

 

[SilentStormSix]

If you feel you are up to the task and would like to help with our backlog of admin tasks and reports, this is what Guardian Applications are for

 

[kallious]

People are having such disproportionality negative reactions in this thread. Dealing with town betrayals is exhausting and time consuming, and each one can often tie up multiple staff members up for way too many hours, doing something nobody wants to deal with. This change isn't referring to someone going and stealing your potions or other supplies that are expected to be handed out to level 1 members so that they can participate, this change is referring to people doing things such as just not zoning their owner's storage and having level 1 members having access to a town's entire wealth. Something like that is absolutely avoidable, and it occurring does nothing but frustrate Loka's already taxed staff members.

I've already heard from both major alliances that they're planning to send people to go get strikes on other towns so they can just get insided. And assuming the strike system is upheld, you're gonna have WAY more town betrayals on your hands than you did before. And I doubt anything will happen about it until Eneria or Eldritch gets their strikes (if at all lmao)

The purpose of this change is to get towns to kick their own security up so that town betrayals CAN'T happen in the first place. All of a town's diamonds can't be stolen by a level 1 member if that level 1 member can't access the diamonds in the first place. Eneria or Eldritch getting a strike is absolutely not going to be something that is likely to happen because they already are well zoned. I think off the top of my head Eldritch has only ever had one instance that might constitute a strike in the last few years, because after it happened zones were updated so it couldn't happen again. That is the main purpose of this change, if a town is insecure and gets a strike it will hopefully be enough of a kick to the butt to get town owners to implement practices so it can't happen again.

I don't think there is a need for a specific list of items that are just always going to be returned, that's not really how this works.

Adding on to this, not only would having a specific list of items be unnecessary, it would absolutely be used by the mentioned people trying to strike other towns. Someone betraying a town and taking a stack of unsecured diamonds is one thing, someone else taking a shulker of diamonds is another. Straight up saying "diamonds (or insert item here) being taken will lead to a strike" would not be to anyone's benefit.

Much easier for our town owners

my alliance and others are more likely to gain strikes.

what we are allowed to give to our level 1 members that would be rolled back, instead of it being vague?

it would allow us to zone according to these rules and not being hurt by them

Can someone just tell me what we have to zone and not have to zone instead of talking about how we shouldn't recruit players

we r asking what items we are allowed to NOT ZONE

And somewhat unrelated but... who's this we you're referring to? Aren't you permabanned? You're making the most fuss out of anyone else in the forum but you can't even play Loka.

 

[FoxyBearGames]

And somewhat unrelated but... who's this we you're referring to? Aren't you permabanned? You're making the most fuss out of anyone else in the forum but you can't even play Loka.

Ringo still has a big hand in Requiem despite being banned, so that would be who he is referring to.