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Implement in Future Improvements for Grinding

jakeman5

Well-Known Member
Slicer
While conversing with other members of my alliance, we concluded that grinding has become increasingly tedious and borderline impossible at times. We all discussed the following ideas and want to get reactions from the community and staff in terms of feasibility.
  • Instanced Shrines
  • Instanced Nether Wart or faster re-spawn times
  • Instanced Glowstone and Quartz
  • Group Grinding in Nether and End
  • Double Mob Drops in exchange for Conquest Points over 24 hours
We believe that these changes are necessary for server growth as right now, it is challenging for totally new players to create a town. The amount of grinding that needs to occur to establish a new town is unrealistic for most players unless they have the support of an alliance. Currently, almost all of the new towns are created by experienced players who already have the support of an alliance, which eliminates possible new ones. This hampers growth by impeding the generation of new alliances on different continents, which would be great for the server as a whole. If it is changed so that players don't have to spend such a large amount of time grinding, they can focus on other aspects of the town. Loka, as it stands, is mostly just PvP and Grinding. There are not as many other things happening since the dedication to supporting these large towns requires grinding for hours.

Continental PvP is disappearing from 2/3 continents; this is another reason we included Double Mob Drops for CP. Implementing these changes would increase the amount of Continental PvP since Pot Mats wouldn't be as scarce and making it not as big of a commitment to fight since several hours of grinding could sustain the town for more than one or two large fights. PvP on all continents would make the server more active as there wouldn't be dead periods where people move to other continents in search of PvP and hopefully increase the active player-base.
 
4 voters
Another thing to note here is furthering the goal to not have one person grind for their entire alliance. Right now resource isles are made so the amount you get is based on the number of people you have visiting them, but the nether is based on respawn times, setting a hard cap on how many blaze rods, nether wart, glowstone, etc you can get in a day. It's bad to have a static amount attached to a growing need for materials for a growing number of players.

Group Grinding in Nether and End
Jake mentioned this but didn't specify what this meant. We suggested that the more people that are there, the more mob spawns there would be instead of instancing mobs considering it's not very realistic to have someone bowing an instanced ghast that no one else can see.
 
+1, The amount of a difference that the buff 2x Mob Drops makes is unreal. It's frankly unfair to everyone who doesn't have enough people to even have a chance at taking that buff. Personally I went to the end for an hour and during that time I got a little than a shulker of pearls, the Endermen drop 1 pearl every 5-8 killed. This little of drop rate makes it impossible to grind for a town that tons and tons of pearls everyday. Not to mention the time you have to spend in Nether killing Ghasts to get 8-12 tears from a whole shrine, and amount the same amount from blaze shrines. There needs to be a different way of obtaining 2x drops (ie. Conquest Points,) or just an increase in mob drops in general.
 
With new nether updates in the future which at some stage would hope to marry in new nether features I could definitely imagine some of the resource sources being reworked so that they're friendlier towards a larger playerbase in the same way Resource Isles were reworked.

That being said, I think some of the reworks resource wise are somewhat far in the future, but I could imagine some form of better mob spawning relative to players/shrine changes.

Imo everything resource wise should be able to scale alongside a growing playerbase or declining one.

EDIT: I also don't think instanced mobs is a good idea!
 
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While conversing with other members of my alliance, we concluded that grinding has become increasingly tedious and borderline impossible at times. We all discussed the following ideas and want to get reactions from the community and staff in terms of feasibility.
  • Instanced Shrines
  • Instanced Nether Wart or faster re-spawn times
  • Instanced Glowstone and Quartz
  • Group Grinding in Nether and End
  • Double Mob Drops in exchange for Conquest Points over 24 hours
We believe that these changes are necessary for server growth as right now, it is challenging for totally new players to create a town. The amount of grinding that needs to occur to establish a new town is unrealistic for most players unless they have the support of an alliance. Currently, almost all of the new towns are created by experienced players who already have the support of an alliance, which eliminates possible new ones. This hampers growth by impeding the generation of new alliances on different continents, which would be great for the server as a whole. If it is changed so that players don't have to spend such a large amount of time grinding, they can focus on other aspects of the town. Loka, as it stands, is mostly just PvP and Grinding. There are not as many other things happening since the dedication to supporting these large towns requires grinding for hours.

Continental PvP is disappearing from 2/3 continents; this is another reason we included Double Mob Drops for CP. Implementing these changes would increase the amount of Continental PvP since Pot Mats wouldn't be as scarce and making it not as big of a commitment to fight since several hours of grinding could sustain the town for more than one or two large fights. PvP on all continents would make the server more active as there wouldn't be dead periods where people move to other continents in search of PvP and hopefully increase the active player-base.
You bring up a lot of good points that all have a good amount of merit to them. I will just go one by one breaking down my thoughts and such on each.

For starters, instanced shrines is a good idea, however would be difficult to implement. I think it'd just be more of a hassle especially when considering how it might work when multiple people go to a shrine. I think a better solution for the time being would likely be to make it so that the actual shrine cooldown is lower, as well as changing the shrine cooldown to apply to individuals, as opposed to the entire server. Adding more shrines could also work, but would be a permanent solution.

Instanced nether wart, glowstone, and quartz are all pretty obvious changes that definitely need to get implemented some time soon.

Group grinding is actually a discussion that we've had in LCR chat in the context of if there were instanced mobs when grinding and the consensus we came to was sort of "what determines a group?", because you could do it by alliance, town, etc. and have each "group" have a cooldown, but I think the issue is that people grind with friendlies and the like all of the time and simply allowing for anyone who is grinding "with you" to be in your group is generally a bad idea. I think I could see a system where people who you have mutually marked friendly get tagged into your "group" but that also is a bit annoying if you don't want to be in the group. I do like the idea of the more people being there, the more mobs spawn though. Clearly this would not work with the instanced grinding, however I think it's a good solution for how multiple people grinding together should function.

Double mob drops for CP is something that wouldn't really make sense to have for CP due to it already being a Balak buff. I think that pulling and replacing the Balak buff and allowing it to be a CP buff would generally be much better.

Sidenote with Balak and the like in general is that allowing for Balak buffs to give the continent caps a clear advantage against the newer players is definitely not good. The less of an edge that the continent caps have against newer players, the better. With camps and the new Rivina a lot of this has gotten much better, however could still use some improvement.

PVP on all continents is definitely something that would be quite optimal in the future, but is increasingly difficult to sustain. Many of times the big alliances on all three continents are aligned with at least one of the large alliances on another one of the continents, if not two of them, and this whole "We want PVP on all three continents" thing is sort of on the fault of the big alliances only fighting at one place at a time.

Overall I generally agree that grinding for new peeps needs a lot of improvement, and working through how to get it fixed is definitely something that needs to be done. Making items that aren't supposed to be restricted available to everyone is definitely something I would like to see in the future and something to work through in the coming months.
 
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You bring up a lot of good points that all have a good amount of merit to them. I will just go one by one breaking down my thoughts and such on each.

For starters, instanced shrines is a good idea, however would be difficult to implement. I think it'd just be more of a hassle especially when considering how it might work when multiple people go to a shrine. I think a better solution for the time being would likely be to make it so that the actual shrine cooldown is lower, as well as changing the shrine cooldown to apply to individuals, as opposed to the entire server. Adding more shrines could also work, but would be a permanent solution.

Instanced nether wart, glowstone, and quartz are all pretty obvious changes that definitely need to get implemented some time soon.

Group grinding is actually a discussion that we've had in LCR chat (as an off-shoot of instanced grinding stuff) and the consensus we came to was sort of "what determines a group?", because you could do it by alliance, town, etc. and have each "group" have a cooldown, but I think the issue is that people grind with friendlies and the like all of the time and simply allowing for anyone who is grinding "with you" to be in your group is generally a bad idea. I think I could see a system where people who you have mutually marked friendly get tagged into your "group" but that also is a bit annoying if you don't want to be in the group.

Double mob drops for CP is something that wouldn't really make sense to have for CP due to it already being a Balak buff. I think that pulling and replacing the Balak buff and allowing it to be a CP buff would generally be much better.

Sidenote with Balak and the like in general is that allowing for Balak buffs to give the continent caps a clear advantage against the newer players is definitely not good. The less of an edge that the continent caps have against newer players, the better. With camps and the new Rivina a lot of this has gotten much better, however could still use some improvement.

PVP on all continents is definitely something that would be quite optimal in the future, but is increasingly difficult to sustain. Many of times the big alliances on all three continents are aligned with at least one of the large alliances on another one of the continents, if not two of them, and this whole "We want PVP on all three continents" thing is sort of on the fault of the big alliances only fighting at one place at a time.

Overall I generally agree that grinding for new peeps needs a lot of improvement, and working through how to get it fixed is definitely something that needs to be done. Making items that aren't supposed to be restricted available to everyone is definitely something I would like to see in the future and something to work through in the coming months.
You say that because 2x drops is already a balak buff it shouldn't be obtainable by CP's but you can get Neutral Mobs from CP's which is also already a Balak buff, I don't see why 2x shouldn't be obtainable by CP's.
 
You say that because 2x drops is already a balak buff it shouldn't be obtainable by CP's but you can get Neutral Mobs from CP's which is also already a Balak buff, I don't see why 2x shouldn't be obtainable by CP's.
There was a better reason as to why we said that having the 2x mob drop should only remain a Balak buff, however I think that the reasoning behind it was something along the lines of not wanting to allow for every single town on the server to obtain the buff. I think it might be able to work as a CP buff, but would have to be quite expensive in order to make sense. At the time that this was suggested the new updates to Rivina hadn't happened just yet and the old CP values were simply too close to one another to warrant having this obtainable for even 200 CP as the majority of towns on Rivina could have obtained it within a few days. Making it available to everyone (or no one at all) is probably the route to go though. I don't generally think that only allowing capitals to have access to extra resources and clear advantages over new players is good, and getting this worked out is something that I'd like to see.
 
There was a better reason as to why we said that having the 2x mob drop should only remain a Balak buff, however I think that the reasoning behind it was something along the lines of not wanting to allow for every single town on the server to obtain the buff. I think it might be able to work as a CP buff, but would have to be quite expensive in order to make sense. At the time that this was suggested the new updates to Rivina hadn't happened just yet and the old CP values were simply too close to one another to warrant having this obtainable for even 200 CP as the majority of towns on Rivina could have obtained it within a few days. Making it available to everyone (or no one at all) is probably the route to go though. I don't generally think that only allowing capitals to have access to extra resources and clear advantages over new players is good, and getting this worked out is something that I'd like to see.
I think that drops should be increased in general. The current drop rate is abysmal for a ton of mobs.
 
I think that drops should be increased in general. The current drop rate is abysmal for a ton of mobs.
I don't think the drops are too outrageously low for an individual player (although I could see it increasing). I definitely think that increasing the spread of them across multiple players is needed though. Currently someone could literally go in and clean out the entire Nether and End of every single mob/ore and no one else would be able to obtain anything, however if the ores become instanced and the mobs cooldown is made to be per-player this could mostly be resolved. The group grinding idea that Frog mentioned would also be a good helper in this.
 
I don't think the drops are too outrageously low for an individual player (although I could see it increasing). I definitely think that increasing the spread of them across multiple players is needed though. Currently someone could literally go in and clean out the entire Nether and End of every single mob/ore and no one else would be able to obtain anything, however if the ores become instanced and the mobs cooldown is made to be per-player this could mostly be resolved. The group grinding idea that Frog mentioned would also be a good helper in this.
I think to instance out the drops for nether we would have to take into consideration the staff who are trying to grind at the end and sometimes the resource islands. they are so many drops and not a lot of drops that happen so having good instances for the drops because they won't have a lot of to get from the mobs that they are killing and sometimes when they want to grind not a lot of things spawn and we don't get that many drops from the instances so if we need to fix it we should.
 
I don't think the drops are too outrageously low for an individual player (although I could see it increasing). I definitely think that increasing the spread of them across multiple players is needed though. Currently someone could literally go in and clean out the entire Nether and End of every single mob/ore and no one else would be able to obtain anything, however if the ores become instanced and the mobs cooldown is made to be per-player this could mostly be resolved. The group grinding idea that Frog mentioned would also be a good helper in this.
Endermen drop 1 pearl for every like 10 you kill, I don't see how it's not outrageously low.
 
Endermen drop 1 pearl for every like 10 you kill, I don't see how it's not outrageously low.
I mean moreso with the currently existing shrines, and because enderman don't have a shrine that's why their droprate isn't great. Enderman/shulker shrines are something that should get implemented and that would fix their drop rate problems.
 
I think to instance out the drops for nether we would have to take into consideration the staff who are trying to grind at the end and sometimes the resource islands. they are so many drops and not a lot of drops that happen so having good instances for the drops because they won't have a lot of to get from the mobs that they are killing and sometimes when they want to grind not a lot of things spawn and we don't get that many drops from the instances so if we need to fix it we should.
yea
 
For starters, instanced shrines is a good idea, however would be difficult to implement. I think it'd just be more of a hassle especially when considering how it might work when multiple people go to a shrine. I think a better solution for the time being would likely be to make it so that the actual shrine cooldown is lower, as well as changing the shrine cooldown to apply to individuals, as opposed to the entire server. Adding more shrines could also work, but would be a permanent solution.
You literally just said that instancing it would be difficult to implement and then suggested instancing the shrine cooldown.

PVP on all continents is definitely something that would be quite optimal in the future, but is increasingly difficult to sustain. Many of times the big alliances on all three continents are aligned with at least one of the large alliances on another one of the continents, if not two of them, and this whole "We want PVP on all three continents" thing is sort of on the fault of the big alliances only fighting at one place at a time.
When recruiting more players is more effective than training your current ones I can't blame them, which is why I suggested a player cap for fights but ill make a forum post later on that

RP has literally survived 2 years grinding on basic drops. Get good noobs.
isn't that why you made a forum post asking for the cost of pearls to get lowered?
 
You literally just said that instancing it would be difficult to implement and then suggested instancing the shrine cooldown.
If you instanced the mobs for each player or made an instanced zone it would be pretty hard. Making the respawn cooldown different from player to player is significantly easier.
 
I would agree with all of these points with the exception of the double mob drops for conquest points. The instanced RI was the first step in improvements to grinding and resource gathering on Loka as a whole. To add to which I would like to have multiple RI's in the future with varying numbers of resources, hopefully splitting newer players apart from experienced ones. The idea being the hardcore players and PvPers are drawn towards the islands with more resources. Other ideas we have had regarding resource gathering is using the quest system to make quests that reward resources you would otherwise grind for. This would allow people to do different activities to grind to keep things fresh and interesting. The challenge regarding the nether is how to make instancing work with mobs/shrines. This is something we will obviously have to solve for nearer the time but I would certainly like to instance valuable blocks and crops that you mention.

Regarding double mob drops, the design behind the conquest points shop is to prevent snowballing and cap the amount of value you can get from each purchasable reward. This is because gaining enough conquest points for a single purchase is somewhat trivial and deliberately so. Giving larger alliances larger benefits from these contradicts the design of Rivina and have a damaging effect on the economy. Which leads me to Balak buffs. These may need reviewing in the future because of the snowballing nature of them, but their purpose is to incentivise combat on Balak as well as helping those on Balak to fund these fights as they are resource-intensive and extra on top of continent warfare. Perhaps once we have added various other means for grinding and balanced them accordingly there would no longer be a need for this buff. Having said that winning world capital should be impactful so powerful things like this may be considered for the world cap policies, but again is something that would need to be reviewed when changes take place.

So to sum it up, yes we want to do more for resource gathering and add more mechanics like instancing that scale with player numbers. It is worth noting the idea is not for a small number of players to be able to grind for an entire alliance. But equally, we don't expect every member of the alliance to grind for their own gear, the balance is somewhere between the extremes. As with everything we have to prioritise and weigh up what we put our time into and work on next. We are always working on stuff and every player will have different personal priorities with what is more important to them. This topic is definitely on our radar and I would highly encourage discussing with your local LCR what you think the most important issues on Loka and what you want to see next.
 
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