Not so hopeless question/suggestion

[Artagan]

Joce, you have an extreme bias against def. He is a great player with great ideas but the wrong approach. He didnt change at all after leavin HC, only your perception of him. I think the server would benefit a lot from him coming back, under the condition that he didnt tell any new players to leave the server.

Andre was banned because he wanted to be banned, not because he wanted to try to get away with breaking a rule. If Andre wants to come back I don't think anyone is against it.

I don't know a lot about hylian but I have nothing against bringing him back because it was so long ago, obviously if he did it again he'd be banned.

Didn't su1 X-ray again after he was brought back the first time?

Basically this. Unbanning people just because people like them is stupid. Def's ban wasn't for an actual rule, it was because Crypt decided talking about the server derogatorily was enough to ban him. Speaking as someone who lived in DR and talked to the guy daily, Def didn't tell anyone to leave the server, he just pissed and moaned about the admins. Whining or being unsociable are not bannable offences.

 

[Magpieman]

Art i am sorry but you are wrong. Def told people on numerous occasions to leave the server and the logs proved this. He broke repeated rules about verbally bullying other players etc. He had no end of warnings about breaking rules and yet he continued, that is why he was banned. I would like to hear no more on the matter of whether def should have been banned as i do not wish this thread to turn into a flame war.

I am of the opinion that we stick to our guns and don't unban rule breakers. We cannot pick and choose who we unban. The choice is therefore to unban everyone or continue how it is. I am going to take a lot of convincing to unban everyone because quite frankly i think its a silly idea.

 

[Psychedelic98]

I disagree with you mag, bringing most rule breakers back would be a terrible thing, but bringing a certain few back could really add to the atmosphere of the server. People who have made loka a better place in the past can do so again even of they've made some mistakes.

 

[Cryptite]

Which of the banned have made Loka a better place?

 

[Magpieman]

I know psy but the issue is we cannot pick and choose. We will get harassed by players to bring their friends back and how do we decide who can come back and who can't. It is impossible to create a fair system doing that.

 

[KenuDragonfire]

Which of the banned have made Loka a better place?

Andre, widely liked by most players and really only griefed cause he was planning on quitting and went out in a bang, and Hylian did somewhat (he's kind of the worst Minecraft player to ever touch the server, but I mean, his warring and overall crazy attitude made it more PvP-centric), but Def? To the people he was friends with I'm sure he was a great guy, but he ruined the entire atmosphere of the server; he wasn't like Psy, who PvP's and steals but can still joke around in general chat and knows when to stop, Def sort of just sat around, was cynical of everyone not Art or Psy, trolled chat, made fun of people in a not-joking way, drove people from the server, caused a bunch of flame posts while not really contributing in other ways, and what would bringing him back change about him? He wouldn't be "AMG THANKS GAIS FOR LETTING ME BACK", he'd be "... I'm going to make this server hell for every single one of you, and I won't break a single rule this time."

If we really want that back... go right ahead. By all means.

 

[Cryptite]

So mostly just andre. Hylian, according to many, brought a zerg-rush of awful kiddies to the server. The kind of people we want on Loka are the kind of people that stick around and don't get banned. With essentially the sole exception of andre, people that were banned were banned for a good reason and will likely regress to their original state if they return, like it or not.

The truth is like Mag says, if we pick a few to come back, the standard will be set. More than anything, we admins are accused of being inconsistent in our rulings. Unbanning people will only serve to further that assumption.

 

[Psychedelic98]

I agree there is no fair system. You can't quantify what good people have done. Andre is the obvious of the banned that did good was Andre but from what you said it sounds like hylian did too. I think bringing them back could make the server a fun place.

 

[KenuDragonfire]

Hylian had a group of like twenty people and claimed he needed to x-ray in order to keep their gen up. Then, his brother flamed about it, claiming the server was unfair when their group cheated even though they have the capacity to be the richest group on the server in like 12 hours from just having them all mine.

Andre atm is the only person who a large majority of the server want to come back, I say we have a separate discussion about unbanning Andre, because let's face it, he's the one person who most of the server won't flip their shizzle if he gets unbanned:

Su1 x-rayed, whined, and then used an alt.
Christennis barely know who that is.
Hylian ^
Def a majority of the server hates.
Cooluke only Jedi really knows.

Or we can just keep our current policy of "ban appeals" in which we just deny every single one. Either way.

 

[Artagan]

It doesn't matter how much we want andre to be unbanned if he doesn't want to come back.

He banned himself, remember?

 

[Jedoi]

He wouldn't be "AMG THANKS GAIS FOR LETTING ME BACK", he'd be "... I'm going to make this server hell for every single one of you, and I won't break a single rule this time."

If we really want that back... go right ahead. By all means.

So Def is more interverted. So he would rather be nice to his friends, rather then the people who he hates and is hated by.
Its his personality. I've talked to him after his ban, and he would not say either of these. More like be quiet and ignore the people who would make fun of him and be mean to him.

 

[Cryptite]

If an introvert is only nice to two people, but mean to the all of the rest, why would the rest of us identify with his kinder side when we never see it? I'll be honest that when Def dealt directly with me, he was the kindest I've ever seen him. Unfortunately his kindness seemed defined as the least possible amount of effort required to maintain civility. He was certainly capable of being a fine member of the community, but it didn't seem like he could quite control the side of himself that was the critical, vindictive, and judgemental side.

Def was the architect of his own ban from the beginning. He was intent on pushing his boundaries until he was banned and he wasn't the kind of person that did anything accidentally. He is entirely responsible for his fate, and unfortunately his ban will never change.

For somebody who hated the server as much as Def did, it'll always be a wonder why he played on Loka as long as he did. Perhaps there's more to the man than we or even his close friends will know, but it'll not be on Loka that we come to find out.

 

[mopb3]

side of himself that was the critical, vindictive, and judgemental side.

Now that's just nonsense.

 

[Magpieman]

For those who don't know christennis xrayed really badly recently and Hylian was an xrayer from about a year ago and was part of the reach.

 

[Jedoi]

For somebody who hated the server as much as Def did, it'll always be a wonder why he played on Loka as long as he did. Perhaps there's more to the man than we or even his close friends will know, but it'll not be on Loka that we come to find out.

Def didn't hate the server. He doesn't hate the server. He never did hate the server. He just said that. Said that, possibly to feel...different. "I hate this server but I'm going to stay here anyways because I know how much the server would miss me if I left." Not those words, really, but you see,
When Def saw pretty much everyone hated him, he wanted to feel like people would still miss him, so he said he hated the server, but he wouldn't leave. So people would feel like Def was doing something weird but...wow. "I love this server, this guy hates it, but he still stays here." Although, he most likely did this whole thing without even knowing what he was doing.

 

[Jedoi]

I'm going to describe this to you:

I feel the tiniest bit of hope that Andre will be unbanned.
Yet I feel great sadness with Def. My heart..literally hurts knowing if he doesn't get unbanned I'll never see one of my best friends again. I also feel pain knowing Def is reading this, seeing what you people are saying about him. I didn't leave Loka because I had this awesome friend here, then I met Andre and Gode and Art and Lea. When Andre and Def were banned, I nearly left. When Lea and Gode disappeared for a month, Art was the only reason I stayed. 'Cause I still had an awesome friend. You know, Def was the reason I made all these friends as well. I cry knowing there is no hope...yet I hope, I hope with all my heart you guys can see his kindness. Def, I know you read these and I know you said you'd never be posting again.
Please, my friend, once more. One most post. Please. Please.

 

[Jedoi]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdZRX0AvkmE[/youtube]

A friend showed me this song, as an anthem to Loka.
It gave me inspiration, how does it make you feel?

It makes me feel that there are others by my side, that there is hope.
And most of all, that I can succeed.
We, the people that stand beside me, can succeed.

 

[Jedoi]

Why do you guys just ignore what I say here?

You all have this....confusing, hard way of this.
I can't even describe it. I suppose I'm young enough to still have the slight, childlike ignorance that's not always a bad thing. Its like, you want to have all this slight bit of this, with a tad of this. Like, "We do forgive but not to everyone. You have to have a mix of forgiveness and keeping grudges and strictness and kindness." I say, "Just forgive." Which makes more sense?

Think back to when you were a child, every one of you. I think I can safely say you were all taught to forgive.
School, "Its the nice thing to do."
Chruch, (Or whatever religion) "God wants us to forgive."
Just at home, "Do you forgive your little brother for whateverhedidthistime?"

Its simple guys. And also, the song I posted earlier, its not every word that I'm talking about. The anger starting a fire, no. not one but a million, no. rocking and burning if things don't change, no. But they do need to change a little.

I know I'm about at the point where you're ignoring me. But I don't care. My voice will go on, until the day were I hate dragons, the day I don't like poems, the day I become a jerk. And those will never happen, not on my watch.

 

[Cryptite]

When you're my age, Jedi, you'll probably have an entirely different viewpoint on this. I and many of our admins have been on the internet long enough to know how people are. When you reverse decisions you made to make the server better in the first place, you not only sully your own credibility as an admin, but you open the server right back up to the same people who intended to hurt it in the first place. If this were real life, second chances could be given (in this place, more like, third, fourth chances). On the internet, there is no accountability, so nobody has any restraint.

 

[mopb3]

On the internet, there is no accountability, so nobody has any restraint.