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The Lokan Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Aurulians
- Thread starter Skuhoo
- Start date
- Status
To expand on this, we had Bat record himself getting killed by Xovious with the intention of using the footage to make it look like Xovious was attacking one of his own members, but we decided against using it because we didn't want to imply Xovious was harmful to his members. This is further proof of our intention to make the joke about how the creators of our fake organization dedicated to rescuing Aurulians are the one's primarily attacking them and nothing else.
I honestly do not believe that the makers of the video and website had harmful intentions, but what really gets me is that after people have complained and labelled it as offensive to them, neither have been taken down.
The case isn't whether Aurulians are "too sensitive", especially since quite a few non-Aurulians are just as shocked and disgusted. In fact, I notice the real conflict going on right now is intention vs reaction.
I understand that the actions of these individuals might have been in good fun, and that may earn them some leniency, but what they should be ashamed of is their stubborn refusal to accept that some people have been hurt by their actions. I must ask this directly to those who are arguing in favour of the video: If you offend somebody or make a mistake that does so, why would you rub it in? If you're not trying to come across as sadists or "bad guys", why can't you just delete the video and apologize?
I'm not going to Ad Hominem this argument like some, but it was definitely a bad move and should deserve repercussions past a simple "don't do it again".
The case isn't whether Aurulians are "too sensitive", especially since quite a few non-Aurulians are just as shocked and disgusted. In fact, I notice the real conflict going on right now is intention vs reaction.
I understand that the actions of these individuals might have been in good fun, and that may earn them some leniency, but what they should be ashamed of is their stubborn refusal to accept that some people have been hurt by their actions. I must ask this directly to those who are arguing in favour of the video: If you offend somebody or make a mistake that does so, why would you rub it in? If you're not trying to come across as sadists or "bad guys", why can't you just delete the video and apologize?
I'm not going to Ad Hominem this argument like some, but it was definitely a bad move and should deserve repercussions past a simple "don't do it again".
To be clear, you and other Aurulians are hurt by us creating a fake organization dedicated to rescuing Aurulians despite us being the primary "abusers" ingame? Because that's the joke and I apologize if you're offended by a different meaning you extrapolated but I'd hardly fault us for your misunderstanding.
"And Xov, as far as you being the 'victim' here, you've done a remarkable job of extrapolating, pal. Literally no part of the video makes any mention of you. We cut the scene of you killing Bat outside Auru so as to not make it directed at you, because that's not what this is about."
So wait, you're telling me this isn't directed towards me, when the first people that walked into your capital hall after you announced this were informed, "He's not on the wall because he's the one doing it!"? It's obvious that this is directed towards the leader of Auru, and you cannot even deny that.
"But to immediately assume that we are malicious in our intent speaks to how little faith the rest of you have in us, and the fact that no one came to us directly to voice their concerns only makes it clearer. "
You can't blame us, every single time I have come to directly voice my concerns to either of you has resulted in it becoming public regardless, with all of you ranting at me at once so I cannot retort. The one time I involved staff higher than you guys, is when it gets serious, because it is. Yeah, it's a joke to you guys, but you're old enough to understand that sometimes, people don't see it the way you do, and if you didn't understand that before making the joke, that's your fault. You also easily could have announced it as a joke. I really could not have cared about the "joke" if you did it, but by making it public by posting it in every single place relevant to this server, you basically shouted out to every single person who has played here or who plays here false lies about who I am.
(Sorry for skipping around)
"In fact, I find it rather insulting that a number of you believe that Sku, myself, or any of our friends genuinely wish to, and have nothing better to do than bully kids. "
Can you seriously blame us? You call yourself memers, but a lot of the stuff you guys have said to us has bothered us in some way, yeah we get over it, but it's still a pain in the beginning, i.e.: Peaches for Falksi, how she got upset over and over about it until I had to tell her to just ignore you guys and handle it as a joke, and started calling her that just to warm her up to it so she wouldn't be so affected by it. I've had constant toxicity recently from you guys, yeah I definitely returned some of it, I slacked in my attempts at being kinder than you people due to stress from exams, which is no excuse. But going this far is definitely ridiculous.
"Again, this largely just seems to be a big misunderstanding, and we're sorry that people ended up hurt by it, but we do not apologize for making a joke."
You literally just apologized, but then cut it off and made it pointless by saying you aren't apologizing for "making a joke." when the joke is the sole reason we all are upset, because it goes deeper than a joke.
All-in-all, I really am upset over this, and actually got quite surprised at the other people being upset over this, I expected myself to be the only one upset because nobody really tends to understand some of the things that upset me, but the fact that this hit deep on many people shows that you guys definitely went too far this time.
So wait, you're telling me this isn't directed towards me, when the first people that walked into your capital hall after you announced this were informed, "He's not on the wall because he's the one doing it!"? It's obvious that this is directed towards the leader of Auru, and you cannot even deny that.
"But to immediately assume that we are malicious in our intent speaks to how little faith the rest of you have in us, and the fact that no one came to us directly to voice their concerns only makes it clearer. "
You can't blame us, every single time I have come to directly voice my concerns to either of you has resulted in it becoming public regardless, with all of you ranting at me at once so I cannot retort. The one time I involved staff higher than you guys, is when it gets serious, because it is. Yeah, it's a joke to you guys, but you're old enough to understand that sometimes, people don't see it the way you do, and if you didn't understand that before making the joke, that's your fault. You also easily could have announced it as a joke. I really could not have cared about the "joke" if you did it, but by making it public by posting it in every single place relevant to this server, you basically shouted out to every single person who has played here or who plays here false lies about who I am.
(Sorry for skipping around)
"In fact, I find it rather insulting that a number of you believe that Sku, myself, or any of our friends genuinely wish to, and have nothing better to do than bully kids. "
Can you seriously blame us? You call yourself memers, but a lot of the stuff you guys have said to us has bothered us in some way, yeah we get over it, but it's still a pain in the beginning, i.e.: Peaches for Falksi, how she got upset over and over about it until I had to tell her to just ignore you guys and handle it as a joke, and started calling her that just to warm her up to it so she wouldn't be so affected by it. I've had constant toxicity recently from you guys, yeah I definitely returned some of it, I slacked in my attempts at being kinder than you people due to stress from exams, which is no excuse. But going this far is definitely ridiculous.
"Again, this largely just seems to be a big misunderstanding, and we're sorry that people ended up hurt by it, but we do not apologize for making a joke."
You literally just apologized, but then cut it off and made it pointless by saying you aren't apologizing for "making a joke." when the joke is the sole reason we all are upset, because it goes deeper than a joke.
All-in-all, I really am upset over this, and actually got quite surprised at the other people being upset over this, I expected myself to be the only one upset because nobody really tends to understand some of the things that upset me, but the fact that this hit deep on many people shows that you guys definitely went too far this time.
Falksi, if people are so offended by it, then don't watch the video, and don't go to Eldritch capital hall. Neither of those things will have a major impact on their Loka experience. If there was a consensus that the video was solely hurtful in nature, and no one besides us saw the humor in it, we'd take it down. But plenty of people did see the joke we made. We should not have to take down the video, and it would be absurd to punish us just because certain people misunderstood our message and took offense to it. We did not say anything targeted or hateful and have not harassed anyone. The trolling offense is arguable, but we all have clean records, and ultimately the big issue here came from a misunderstanding between the two sides.
(Also, as a side note, we're not even entirely clear on what offense is being taken here, other than the 'animals' thing, which we already explained is not in any way intended or implied)
I don't understand you people... How can you be so heartless? This video, if you like it or not... Hurt people personally. And I don't care how much time you spent on making this so called "Joke". It's not cool whatsoever. It's not funny, it's not appropriate, and it's not mature. This matter isn't a joke now. It's dealing with peoples' emotional state if you want to be the mature, responsible, people you claim to be... Just take down the video and apologize to those who were offended by the video.
"Falksi, if people are so offended by it, then don't watch the video, and don't go to Eldritch capital hall. Neither of those things will have a major impact on their Loka experience."
You had pinged everybody inside the Loka chat along with constantly announcing stuff in public, in Borne's case?
"We should not have to take down the video, and it would be absurd to punish us just because certain people misunderstood our message and took offense to it. "
You should take it down because if it's taken offensively by such a large audience to the point where this many people are upset, it's clearly bad. As for it being absurd to punish you, how is it absurd to punish staff breaking rules over and over? This isn't the first act of harassment, but this is definitely the worst, and coming from a staff member primarily is a bad representation of staff and should be dealt with. Those "certain people" that "misunderstood" your message are the ones it was targeted towards, so it is clearly harassment.
"We did not say anything targeted or hateful and have not harassed anyone"
It was most definitely targeted, and definitely felt like harassment.
"The trolling offense is arguable, but we all have clean records,"
I wouldn't say clean either, as I mentioned previously, you have constantly been harassing members of our town for absolutely no reason, including me.
You had pinged everybody inside the Loka chat along with constantly announcing stuff in public, in Borne's case?
"We should not have to take down the video, and it would be absurd to punish us just because certain people misunderstood our message and took offense to it. "
You should take it down because if it's taken offensively by such a large audience to the point where this many people are upset, it's clearly bad. As for it being absurd to punish you, how is it absurd to punish staff breaking rules over and over? This isn't the first act of harassment, but this is definitely the worst, and coming from a staff member primarily is a bad representation of staff and should be dealt with. Those "certain people" that "misunderstood" your message are the ones it was targeted towards, so it is clearly harassment.
"We did not say anything targeted or hateful and have not harassed anyone"
It was most definitely targeted, and definitely felt like harassment.
"The trolling offense is arguable, but we all have clean records,"
I wouldn't say clean either, as I mentioned previously, you have constantly been harassing members of our town for absolutely no reason, including me.
https://gyazo.com/3e651b2a90ccf761daa1efd613038c5f
This is showing that you guys kept going after Crypt said he had spoken to you.
https://gyazo.com/3e651b2a90ccf761daa1efd613038c5f
http://eldritchbot.com/lspca/
You even added some random girl's number and she got phone calls about it, that's real life harassment and definitely an offense. You were also posting links to an irrelevant site that was offensive and rude, for which even Quazister got insta-banned for, yet you guys have not been punished?
*Forgot to mention previously, but I was just reminded, Kallious also compared me to Adolf Hitler.*
This is showing that you guys kept going after Crypt said he had spoken to you.
https://gyazo.com/3e651b2a90ccf761daa1efd613038c5f
http://eldritchbot.com/lspca/
You even added some random girl's number and she got phone calls about it, that's real life harassment and definitely an offense. You were also posting links to an irrelevant site that was offensive and rude, for which even Quazister got insta-banned for, yet you guys have not been punished?
*Forgot to mention previously, but I was just reminded, Kallious also compared me to Adolf Hitler.*
Quick question on that matter, if I may. I believe you've defied every Rules and Regulations section that has ever existed just by saying that. For example, YouTube has rules against discrimination and harassment, either of groups and an individual. If a group of people feel targeted and insulted by the video, and it is found to be offensive, the video breaks a part of the rules and will be deleted. Similarly to Loka, you can't expect a group of people that are publicly feeling insulted to sit still without fighting against its removal.
Right now, only two people (or services) have the right to delete that video, and they are you and YouTube. This is precisely why people in these comments are attacking you and responding to you. At this point, I doubt anybody wants to even argue, so please do us all a favour and delete it. I do not like how it has hurt my friends and the people around me.
To start with the easiest response, I stand by what I said. We are sorry that people misinterpreted us and thought we were making an attack on them. We are not sorry that we spent (too much) time making a (ridiculously elaborate) joke. And as far as going deeper than a joke, again, we need to remember to separate the player in-game from the person behind the screen. If you think that this was made as some insult to any of you in real life, you need to stop and think about that we don't know any of you personally. If you think it goes deeper than the game, that is entirely an unsubstantiated perception on your end. And I will once again re-state myself, we do not make public, personal attacks on anyone, because that's not what we're about.
Whoever said that was completely out of line and should not have said that. If you want to say who it was, they will most certainly have to answer for saying that, and the rest of us don't stand by it. I apologize that it happened, and please understand that whoever did so was 100% wrong in saying that.
As far as all these claims of harassment, I know we have arguments and all that, and admittedly what we did with the eggplants was immature and stupid, but other than that, I am unaware of any legitimate harassment by our members towards yours. If you have evidence of such behavior, I urge you to come to me, Sku, or the admins, because we don't tolerate that. We'll poke fun at people sometimes, yes, and we'll make memes, but if someone is legitimately harassing others, they have gone too far.
I used a random number generator to generate a 10-digit number that I put in phone number format. The fact that it lead to a legitimate person's phone number is unfortunate, which is why I replaced the number with a nonexistant phone number .
Are you criticizing me for posting a link to my website? How is that any different from players posting links to their screenshots hosted on imgur or gyazo? The subject of the site is Loka-specific so I don't see how you can reasonably claim it's "irrelevant". Last time I checked eldritchbot.com didn't host any porn. The same can not be said for Quaz's "irrelevant" link. And to be clear, Quaz was banned because he linked to a pornographic site in public chat, not because the site wasn't related to Loka.
This.
"I'm sorry you got upset, but I'm not sorry for being the one that caused it."
That is how I read that.
Calixx
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"If you think that this was made as some insult to any of you in real life, you need to stop and think about that we don't know any of you personally."
Just because you don't know us personally, does not mean it doesn't affect the person. Yet you kept it up and kept going. Borne is the one that said that it was me, and Kallious is the one that added on and called me Hitler.
"As far as all these claims of harassment, I know we have arguments and all that, and admittedly what we did with the eggplants was immature and stupid, but other than that, I am unaware of any legitimate harassment by our members towards yours."
There's been name calling, the eggplants thing after I asked for you guys to stop several times and then just didn't care so I resorted to name calling, and then this whole LSPCA thing. It's constant harassment, not just one case.
Skuhoo
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"I used a random number generator to generate a 10-digit number that I put in phone number format. The fact that it lead to a legitimate person's phone number is unfortunate, which is why I replaced the number with a nonexistant phone number."
Good, that poor lady sounded terrified when I called her
"Are you criticizing me for posting a link to my website? How is that any different from players posting links to their screenshots hosted on imgur or gyazo? The subject of the site is Loka-specific so I don't see how you can reasonably claim it's "irrelevant"."
When people send screenshots, it's relevant and has nothing to do with harassment of players (atleast I haven't seen it yet until I posted mine, but that wasn't in public chat.) The subject of the site may be Loka-specific, and it is irrelevant to the theme of the site that got approved because you added to it and it was used as a tool for harassment of a player/players, and THAT is what is irrelevant about it. Then having it get posted in chat (Borne's doing again), was even worse.
*EDIT*: Also Calixx, exactly as Falksi said, at least you can apologize, although not fully. First person to step up and get close enough to it, thanks.
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"If you think that this was made as some insult to any of you in real life, you need to stop and think about that we don't know any of you personally."
Just because you don't know us personally, does not mean it doesn't affect the person. Yet you kept it up and kept going. Borne is the one that said that it was me, and Kallious is the one that added on and called me Hitler.
"As far as all these claims of harassment, I know we have arguments and all that, and admittedly what we did with the eggplants was immature and stupid, but other than that, I am unaware of any legitimate harassment by our members towards yours."
There's been name calling, the eggplants thing after I asked for you guys to stop several times and then just didn't care so I resorted to name calling, and then this whole LSPCA thing. It's constant harassment, not just one case.
Skuhoo
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"I used a random number generator to generate a 10-digit number that I put in phone number format. The fact that it lead to a legitimate person's phone number is unfortunate, which is why I replaced the number with a nonexistant phone number."
Good, that poor lady sounded terrified when I called her
"Are you criticizing me for posting a link to my website? How is that any different from players posting links to their screenshots hosted on imgur or gyazo? The subject of the site is Loka-specific so I don't see how you can reasonably claim it's "irrelevant"."
When people send screenshots, it's relevant and has nothing to do with harassment of players (atleast I haven't seen it yet until I posted mine, but that wasn't in public chat.) The subject of the site may be Loka-specific, and it is irrelevant to the theme of the site that got approved because you added to it and it was used as a tool for harassment of a player/players, and THAT is what is irrelevant about it. Then having it get posted in chat (Borne's doing again), was even worse.
*EDIT*: Also Calixx, exactly as Falksi said, at least you can apologize, although not fully. First person to step up and get close enough to it, thanks.
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Honestly the fact that this server has been around for so long and yet people like this still think that doing something like this and not having any repercussions is amazing. I went into hiatus on this server due to the amount of verbal hate people were throwing at other people at the time was to much and forced me into hiatus until the people quit the server or play so infrequently that its not a bother. Now that I have been back for a few months and the tension, salt (for lack of a better word), and just hate is honestly appalling.Here we have a staff member a Sentry whose role in this community is to monitor chat and the website for inappropriate content being allowed to belittle, bully, and slander people as "a joke". we have other people in the video who have been muted and tempt banned due to spamming and harassment yet we still let this happen. People have asked that the video and website be taken done which by the way in case you didn't know uses someone's real phone number that has no idea that her number is being used and thats just irresponsible and flat out wrong. I was personally surprised that the people in the video were not asked by the makers of the video permission to be used in the video because we were video tapped without our knowledge or consent. As someone who appears in the video when it was posted I felt a mixture of disbelief and sadness that we were though of as so little. It saddens me knowing that other people of the server seem to think so little of not only the people in the video but the people not mentioned in the video that were attacked due to the video. Xovious himself was compared to Hitler by Kallious in discord in direct response to this video which is just horrible! Y'all say we need to learn to take a joke yet this blindsided us. Yeah we are at war but lets break down what this war is. Its a war between 2 fictional nations on a video game that we all play for fun. Cryptite was nice enough to keep Loka going for as long as he did because he like the server and managing it (I believe) so the fact that this has gone as far as to produce video propaganda against people that live in fictional towns is just flat out stupid. I mean we are all human beings can't we just learn to be nice and respectful to one another. We can all be funny and rude to one another sometimes but its all fun and games this is the first major personal attack against members in a town on this scale. First you got everyone attention by saying you were making an "announcement" and then you released this which is just something I have no words. Also you say this isn't bullying but if you see this definition of bullying you will find that you are wrong.
bul·ly1
ˈbo͝olē/
verb
gerund or present participle: bullying
EDIT: thank you Calixx for actually apologizing.
bul·ly1
ˈbo͝olē/
verb
gerund or present participle: bullying
- use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants.
EDIT: thank you Calixx for actually apologizing.
The thing Kallious said was "Not even Hitler harmed Aurulians", in response to an inane comment by Companion about learning from the past and Hitler, or something like that. Admittedly, he went too far in explicitly naming you, and he should've been a bit more careful when making reference to Hitler. Borne also should not have named you specifically, because we were deliberately avoiding naming anyone in particular, only a vague 'Auru leadership', even if it was something he said in character as an "abused Aurulian".
As for the eggplants, again, we took that to far. However, you even admit that you then stooped to our level and took to name calling, so I'd say we're even on that count. We're done with the eggplants, and other than that, we haven't targeted you in any way other than that you a the person primarily arguing with us over most Loka stuff, but that's a whole different forum post.
I understand where you're coming from here, I really do. We legitimately do apologize for anyone who feels personally attacked by this and is upset by it. But I stand by the fact that we did not do this maliciously. This was all meant to be in good fun, and we only expected it to maybe ruffle some feathers here and there. This overwhelming backlash is very much a surprise to us. Again, I'll apologize for that fact that we did end up causing such a kerfuffle, because our intentions were genuinely not to harm, and we do not apologize for our intent.
Let me explain how this looks to us.
We see this joke video comparing us to animals. We're called helpless Aurulians, and hear that Bat and Borne, two former Aurulians were "rescued."
You make it seem like our leaders are the ones who are abusing us, and that those who join you are "rescued."
You say the joke is that you are the ones who abuse us, but it makes the video implies it's our leaders doing it. It was poorly made in poor taste, and I see no reason to keep the video and the page up. It was targeted towards a certain group of people, many of which found it offensive. Regardless of the intention, you hurt people. What's the point of keeping them up?
We see this joke video comparing us to animals. We're called helpless Aurulians, and hear that Bat and Borne, two former Aurulians were "rescued."
You make it seem like our leaders are the ones who are abusing us, and that those who join you are "rescued."
You say the joke is that you are the ones who abuse us, but it makes the video implies it's our leaders doing it. It was poorly made in poor taste, and I see no reason to keep the video and the page up. It was targeted towards a certain group of people, many of which found it offensive. Regardless of the intention, you hurt people. What's the point of keeping them up?
Calixx, thanks for actually apologizing, once again. I do not believe you should be the one apologizing for everyone that partook it in though, nor do I think there should be no consequences.
Just as a reference to how I felt after, I know I'd probably get yelled at for putting this up but whatever, these are screenshots of me venting to my FRIENDS in a chat, and then their response to it showing that they didn't take it as a joke once they understood the full thing going on.
(Keep in mind I was already tired as crap from a leadership program all day, and then coming home to toxicity like this is kinda of infuriating, I just kinda vented and let it all out)
https://gyazo.com/d32b6525f0439f593acfdcd55a6cac87
https://gyazo.com/9ca1447250b1f2a0f6be0f7ad7ac5421
https://gyazo.com/b2836adb65e32668924802084f0dbfa6
https://gyazo.com/1bf34fa1fa40da2981a49f1e7c78985e
That's my reason for being upset over this, I've had "friends" before that meant a lot to me at the time, lash out at me to try to get me to understand their pain (something a depressed person or a hurt person could do, it's quite common). I was called abusive, yeah, as I was trying to comfort the person. Hell, I've been the last person to ever speak to somebody in their life before they killed themselves. That did it due to harassment and etc like this. They told me straight up that I was the only friend they had and that I was good to them, and then never spoke again, they were gone. Forever. No matter what intentions you have, you should never make jokes that hurt other people if you think they could take it seriously, and if you think they will, do everything in your power to make sure they understand that you're messing around. Treating others like they are inferior and being condescending to them just hurts the person more, and makes them feel like crap. Every human is equal, but I really haven't been getting that from you guys. There's always condescending tones and you tend to always treat our town, even alliance, like they're inferior at times. There's something that I was told quite a while ago, that I should build people up, not tear them down like I did as a younger teen than I am now, (13 and etc) because I spent time with the wrong crowd. Yeah, I'm bringing real life into this scenario because real people are behind those screens, and those people have feelings. They're not just a username in a game, or an enemy. They're people with a personality, dreams, emotions, and a past. That's enough of the personal rant though, I just hope I clarified why I was hurt by this. The others recognized this because we've spoken in voice chat before and I have talked about past events, just when those random deep talks pop up.
Just as a reference to how I felt after, I know I'd probably get yelled at for putting this up but whatever, these are screenshots of me venting to my FRIENDS in a chat, and then their response to it showing that they didn't take it as a joke once they understood the full thing going on.
(Keep in mind I was already tired as crap from a leadership program all day, and then coming home to toxicity like this is kinda of infuriating, I just kinda vented and let it all out)
https://gyazo.com/d32b6525f0439f593acfdcd55a6cac87
https://gyazo.com/9ca1447250b1f2a0f6be0f7ad7ac5421
https://gyazo.com/b2836adb65e32668924802084f0dbfa6
https://gyazo.com/1bf34fa1fa40da2981a49f1e7c78985e
That's my reason for being upset over this, I've had "friends" before that meant a lot to me at the time, lash out at me to try to get me to understand their pain (something a depressed person or a hurt person could do, it's quite common). I was called abusive, yeah, as I was trying to comfort the person. Hell, I've been the last person to ever speak to somebody in their life before they killed themselves. That did it due to harassment and etc like this. They told me straight up that I was the only friend they had and that I was good to them, and then never spoke again, they were gone. Forever. No matter what intentions you have, you should never make jokes that hurt other people if you think they could take it seriously, and if you think they will, do everything in your power to make sure they understand that you're messing around. Treating others like they are inferior and being condescending to them just hurts the person more, and makes them feel like crap. Every human is equal, but I really haven't been getting that from you guys. There's always condescending tones and you tend to always treat our town, even alliance, like they're inferior at times. There's something that I was told quite a while ago, that I should build people up, not tear them down like I did as a younger teen than I am now, (13 and etc) because I spent time with the wrong crowd. Yeah, I'm bringing real life into this scenario because real people are behind those screens, and those people have feelings. They're not just a username in a game, or an enemy. They're people with a personality, dreams, emotions, and a past. That's enough of the personal rant though, I just hope I clarified why I was hurt by this. The others recognized this because we've spoken in voice chat before and I have talked about past events, just when those random deep talks pop up.
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