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Towns and chests protection.

Toiongo

Toiongo

Member
Slicer
I'll go straight to the point, protection as it is right now is too much for decent action in my opinion, and that's why:

- Protection. Ender pearls are disabled, this means the only way to get in a town surrounded by walls without permission is to use a TNT cannon, and that's only an option if the town doesn't have protection that goes far beyond town's walls. Of course, you could try to use a nether portal to get around, but it's possible for settlers to simply make one inside and block it as they go in and out.

- Covered chests. And no, ability to open them if they're covered isn't going to change anything, people won't even have to hide them, they'll simply place them behind protected walls, placing signs on those if they want storage to be public. Brake a block, take stuff, cover the hole and you're never going to be robbed unless a traitor comes by.

- Traps. It's easy to get in a situation where it is impossible to escape without teleporting, because of a protection. Nether portals are a nice example, but it's not limited to them.

- Tension. Should you join a protected settlement and fear for you possesions is gone. I remember coming to the Artifact for the first time... in a town, there was always feeling of suspense from random raider attacks, and before that there was even a greater fear for items i've collected and had on me and for safety of hideouts i've made. I think that this is what it should be about, a harsh, dangerous world with no place to hide. Fight for survival or be killed and robbed of everything you've got.

"Survive or be killed. Horde and hide or be poor. Defend or die." - Loka's description on one of MC server lists. Seriously, how does that go with what server is right now ?




Anyway, i'd like to hear everyone's opinions on that so we can discuss a solution to those problems.
 
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The division seems to mostly come from Artifact players and Loka players so here's an idea. If you like it then go for it.

Create a list of pros and cons for each of the two worlds. Obviously those who never played on Artifact can't make a list for Artifact, but they can still discuss what the others are posting. Then review and see if there are any issues we can compromise on.
 
I post this over and over again and yet no one seems to understand. Minecraft has changed a lot since the artifact. Its basically a different game, so most old concepts just dont work anymore.
 
The main change has just been the popularity of Minecraft. Rather than get 1000 new players a year we're getting 1000 players a month. Many of our old policies are no longer compatible. However, when we jumped from Artifact to Loka we completely flipped the server around and introduced a lot of new features and rules. At the time no one minded since it was fresh, new, and exciting. Perhaps we can remove or adjust some of those changes?
 
Magpieman said:
Its the same small group of people, the rest of the server like gens. Adder, mop, toi and art, you are on your own. Just because you are some of the only people active on the forums does not mean this is the servers view. So as i said before there is no debate to be had. You are simply wasting your own time debating here because gens are not going anywhere.
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I'm afraid 9 people voting for change falls outside the still active older gen players. This is very much a "stuck in the old ways, afraid of change" view mag, which isn't right if many people are wanting change. Also, there are more new gen players active on these forums than old but they still cannot outvote the will for change.
 
I say that towns indeed need to be nerfed.

I do like the idea where town protection is taken down or has a larger weakness when players within it are online. Adds the element where raids mean that the raiders actually have something to worry about.

The majority of the votes, 9:3 vote for change. This indeed outweighs the number of Artifact players, and is triple the number of votes against it anyway. The fact that artifact players tend to be more active on the servers and that that makes this biased is irrelevant.

The ones who post more are obviously the ones who care more.


In regards to 'Survival of the fittest is outdated' and 'Minecraft has changed', you're completely in the wrong. The only reason why these may have changed is because of the minecraft community, not the game itself. With the introduction of new mechanisms (eg. Nether, pistons, redstone) there have been many chances for these ideas to be promoted, but the community did not see this way.

We on this forum are not the Minecraft community, but rather the Loka community.

However the game may change, this server is ultimately ours to change, and therefore these ideas are as valid as ever.
 
As it was stated here already, the only thing that might have changed is the way people like to play now. The game itself remains unchanged in those terms, and, after all, it really might be a bad idea to remove gens completly, but it sure damn is a nice one to change something about them. If they simply are left like that we can go straight to removing any 'PVP' from Loka's description and replace it with 'Creative Building', because that's what it is about as of now.

Adder, mop, toi and art, you are on your own.
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I think you're missing posts from other people, Mag, read the thread first.
 
We're not removing town protection, so all conversation on that can completely stop.

If you'd like changes, please post them on a per-thread basis in this forum. Threads that wind up getting several pages deep mean suggestions may get forgotten, and the best way to get attention on them is to separate them out. These "everything is wrong and not beneficial to me" posts are extremely unhelpful. What is helpful are specific, pointed, and thought-out suggestions. That said, I believe Zor is currently the one putting together a list of suggestions/pros/cons, etc. Please get with him on this.

I appreciate you guys posting your thoughts about these things on the forums, but please keep it civil and respectful. Don't expect huge changes though as it is essentially the same handful of people that suggest this time and time again and we know the overwhelming view on the server is not in favor of huge sweeping changes, but rather in smaller changes meant to balance the equation. I'd appreciate lowering the amount of hyperbole being thrown around as it only makes those who use it look bad.

Things can and do change, but if you've played on this server for any legitimate period of time, you'll know they don't change immediately, so the key is just to be patient and "respect the process". If the server had remain unchanged since the original days, it probably wouldn't be around anymore.
 
Cryptite said:
That said, I believe Zor is currently the one putting together a list of suggestions/pros/cons, etc. Please get with him on this.
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My current focus is specifically the rules governing PvP and raiding, but yeah if you guys could respond to my book at spawn that'd be lovely.
 
If people really don't want gens, then feel free to go on a hardcore PvP/Raid/Grief server. You won't have to raid your friends, and you'll get to just go nonstop on destroying them.

Gens and plugins and this weird mid-ground PvP/"we lie about us being vanilla" vanilla is something that makes the server unique. If we take away gens, then what do you have? Another PvP server that has no other purpose than to troll people. Sure, those servers are great, but there are literally THOUSANDS of them. Reddit has a lot. mcserverlists has a lot. If you want to troll, grief, and raid without any sort of limitations, go feel free.

Also, since when have alliances EVER been formed? The Alliance wasn't even an alliance. Zor was liek, "I grant ye permission to attack Capital," so Big decided he wanted help, so he asked me, so I was like, "Pallet to war!" and then Gud and Su1 were liek, "te war!" The Southern Wars Pallet+Haven alliance doesn't count, I just wanted to piss off Mop (<3 ye). The "War that never Came" was Mop, Line, and I breaking into TheBox and stealing iron tools, and then Mop and Line would /spawn out as soon as Lolo logged on. The Skylance "War" was Zor and I vs. Skylance. HC isn't really a warring town, more like gangs doing drive-by's than anything else. The chances of these "stupid" towns forming a Confederacy of Towns that Can't Defend Themselves? Next to none.

Smaller towns shouldn't be sponsored by bigger towns, because then they will shape those towns in their image and in their ideas. Smaller towns should have to work to survive, not be given hand outs from larger towns. Sure, gifts and nonsense to help them start up is fine and dandy, but paying for the gen constantly? If we want good towns, we have to let 5/6 towns die in order for that 1/6 to be a different and unique town. Of course we could have 6/6 towns saved, and hey, maybe 1/6 of them will grow to be better than their sponsored towns?

I do, however, think we should convert Loka into a Voltz server, keep the map, and then just regen chunks every now and then for uranium and copper and stuffs. Sort of have the server evolve into the "next age", Civilization style. Of course we'd be skipping to the Modern Era like, immediately, but w/e.
 
What Nouv said right there, I agree. Also, as someone else said so, if you want no town protection, you can just go to play on some server where grief is allowed. I may not be the best builder, but removing town protection and exposing your builds so much sounds like madness to me. I say we should wait for the chest protection (by covering with a block) to be removed in the next few days and see how it goes.
 
adderman500 said:
JocelynReed said:
No town protection is too extreme
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It wasn't in the good ole' days.
JocelynReed said:
we need to protect the stupid to some degree
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Why? The weak must be destroyed, for that is the nature of survival and in turn Darwinism, which this server used to thrive upon.
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The weak must be destroyed? there goes more then half the server. This would kill the the server, It really would. people cry about being raided now? holy crap No gen protection wouldn't even give towns a chance.

This idea is completely insane.
 
Psychedelic98 said:
Changes would be nice, but completely removing protection isn't the way to go.
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I agree with Psy


Besides Cath folks, if you guys want gens nerfed........keep your gen off.
 
Also to note is that we did have protection on Artifact. If you managed to catch Asymp when he was online (once a month) then he would WG your town. Most towns actually were protected.

That said, I do really like that WG was static. If someone cannoned your place you couldn't just extend your protection and BAM, problem solved. You had to rethink the design of your walls and the rest of your defences to prevent further entry.
 
I agree with what Cryptite has said. Point of this thread was to bring attention to topic of protection and it has done that pretty well. It actually now even to me seems like a bad idea to remove the gens completely, but we've come to solution that there needs to be a change, even if it's a small one. So far, tho, there is really nothing to suggest, at least in this thread.

So i'd suggest to close the thread, but keep poll open, perhaps even stick it on top of suggestions forum.

If i'll find a possible solution to protection, i'll post it in this forum, for now, tho, i can't really think of much.

Besides Cath folks, if you guys want gens nerfed........keep your gen off.
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It is constantly down and we don't even care much, we can keep it down permanently, if you'd like us to.

I say we should wait for the chest protection (by covering with a block) to be removed in the next few days and see how it goes.
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I can assure you that people will simply hide their chests behind walls or something similar, but, of course, we'll see for sure when it comes live.

It is pretty clear, tho, that this is not the only change the server needs, but let's not continue to discuss it here.
 
Toi the chest protection will mean people will hide their chests behind a wall but that would make it much easier for someone to cannon into that room to steal the loot. It also means any chests left around the town for a current building project etc. will be venerable if a thief gets into the town because they cannot just put a block over the chest.
 
KenuDragonfire said:
The "War that never Came" was Mop, Line, and I breaking into TheBox and stealing iron tools, and then Mop and Line would /spawn out as soon as Lolo logged on. .
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Hey hey

There was tension.

Lots of it.


Also in regards to the changing of town protection regions: how about a fee to change the region size, deducted from your generator balance, and based on the amount change?
Or a time limit on how many times you can change it within one day or so.
 
Psychedelic98 said:
Or just a straight limit on protection. At what point is a town too big?
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I'd say when there is more protection outside the town limits than inside. In most cases the limits would be the walls, but there are sometimes small houses scattered around outside.

Because people do choose to build different sizes of towns and even though much of the town may not be inhabited, those areas can still be put to use with farms, grinders, aesthetic builds, vaults, etc. So unfortunately we can't really place a limit.
 
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