AfricanPenguins
Member
argus has done nothing wrong and i have nothing against them or the people in it, its just the idea that i could maybe try and make this server interesting if i could get a war going. failed
Welcome to our Forums!
Type /register while in-game to register for a forum account.
A Fresh Start
- Thread starter X_Cavator
- Start date
ChuckToast64
Member
Vesper wasn't ready to take on Argus when it did. The towns barely had any tgens to rival the amount of territory of Argus; their tgens lacked any defense; their best pvp players come and go from the server; and a lot of players lack the experience of territory fights. Even if every town united to fight Argus, that's a lot of time for players to spend. When I mentioned the small alliance fights, I was talking about an opportunity for towns to practice and have fun along the way. I've thought of doing this for Atlas in order to attract and retain membership by giving players something to do. Territories does not have to be stuck in the absolutes of dull peace and full fledged war.
AfricanPenguins
Member
We were fully aware vesper had no chance in hell of succeeding but we had hopes to have fun and enjoy the road the war took but it turned into a stressful pain in the ass to get anything done. we had coordination among 3 of us and that was about it. we just wanted to maybe get a war and have the other small towns pick a side and help out. clearly none of this happened because when i asked most of you it was either an "idk ill ask the rest of my town" or a "hell no" because everyone is scared shitless of argus. all we want is some fair fighting to spice up the server and maybe excite some new players to stay and enjoy the journey.
Honestly, I don't understand why practically everyone is making Argus sound like it's some godly alliance, when really, we're the weakest we've ever been at this exact moment. First of all, what do you mean by you want some fair fighting? Argus fights fair and I remember myself 1v5ing you guys at times, is that really fair? Or is not fair bc I won? I'm just trying to see where you're coming from, because I really don't understand what is so scary and what's not fair about how we work.
AfricanPenguins
Member
You may think you are weak but look at the rest of us. 10-20 tgens at best vs. 4 towns 50ish tgens each. Shitty to average pvpers vs. average to good pvpers. Jack shit numbers (both my towns have just myself anymore) vs. still very little but a hell of alot more. Iron gear vs. prot 4 and as cav rumors stacks of gapps. not putting this up to bitch just telling you what i see
The biggest issue I've had with the two 'wars' we've had in the past of territory battles isn't that Argus won both, it's how Argus fights when they really want to. They call it an offensive, but I call it a scorched earth policy. Effectively, Argus finally decides they don't want to deal with having to logon frequently to see if they're getting attacked or not so they decide that they're going to spend 48-72 hours and literally wipe the opposition off the face of Loka and leave nothing remaining. Worse, the last time they did this to end the Vesper attacks, they also raided the ever-living shit out of a couple towns and literally forced a couple towns off the server (there were other parts to it, but this was the catalyst). Simply put, this demoralizes the enemy and can make people quit the server in their own right.
Unfortunately, there's nothing mechanically wrong with this tactic, because it's how the system works. Psychologically, however, it's unfortunate because any chance of a "fun conflict" are removed entirely because Argus effectively decides it doesn't want to play anymore and just deletes opposition. Fortunately, the people who've done this in the past also agree that, in hindsight, that wasn't very fun and led Loka to peace (which is boring).
We've actually already decided to implement some limits to how many TGens can be destroyed in a day to prevent this very thing in the future. We knew Conquest would be a difficult feature to balance and tune and I think getting some more incentives in the system would be helpful as well as making the system work in a way that doesn't require you to have absolute 24h surveillance going on. People do need sleep after all.
Unfortunately, there's nothing mechanically wrong with this tactic, because it's how the system works. Psychologically, however, it's unfortunate because any chance of a "fun conflict" are removed entirely because Argus effectively decides it doesn't want to play anymore and just deletes opposition. Fortunately, the people who've done this in the past also agree that, in hindsight, that wasn't very fun and led Loka to peace (which is boring).
We've actually already decided to implement some limits to how many TGens can be destroyed in a day to prevent this very thing in the future. We knew Conquest would be a difficult feature to balance and tune and I think getting some more incentives in the system would be helpful as well as making the system work in a way that doesn't require you to have absolute 24h surveillance going on. People do need sleep after all.
I feel like this point still isn't getting across or being addressed. Let's say the best pvpers from the faction I am currently in come to loka, about 7 guys. We start a town and it takes us a few days to get the gear we will need to fight. As a group each of us gets a couple sets of p4 and enough pots for a fight. With 2 of these guys better than east and a 7 man group we go in confident. We show up to the fight, nico and east are there and both know the skill of this group. They choose to bring 5 sets of armor and 25 god apples with a couple drinkable pots. My group gets slaughtered because of how stacked they are and become salt monsters and loka never sees them again. This scenario can happen to any pvp group across the server, the only reason argus hasn't done this yet is because they haven't had to (no offense.)
A map reset would only solve this scenario temporarily. Even after a couple weeks, simply by the fact that they play more than you do, they will still have more sets of diamond armor than you do. If we removed gapples, sure, that might help, but if two opponents are equally skilled, the one that plays more will always have more and there's nothing we can do about that.
There's no incentive to spend time, effort, and resources in becoming Capital if you can be dethroned everyday. I certainly wouldn't try. Being Capital for an extended period of time is meant to be a reward for extended effort. If it becomes a daily thing, then it's just a battle of who is online that day.
We could get more fights if there were better incentives to do so that weren't limited to becoming Capital. Additionally, setting a cap on tgen fights per day does prevent these aforementioned offensives, so we're onboard for that.
The funny part about that, was that when I began to say those things it was pretty much RP with some truth in it. When the war reached its "climax" I realized that there was more truth in it than I had thought. In my humble opinion Argus ruins the spirit of the game so to speak; in gaming in general everyone has a relatively equal shot at victory- that's what makes players try. But with no chance at wining, nobody will want to fight.
Ah. Well, those vaunted Argus pvp-ers are bad for being so good. 
And for the record, Haven was left out of the offensive. As an Eros member, with so many Eros t-gens having been attacked, I got the same jaded view of the opposition (which was enhanced by the rp trash talking, of course).
I don't think it fits this thread or section of the forum, but it might do for us all to hear the story of how Argus came into power (I have little knowledge of it). Maybe there is already a thread about it?
Back on topic, DarkCartographer, ColorAutumnus and I were relocating t-gens at the time of some of the attacks against Argus. I had the impression that we could have kept pace, putting up new t-gens as fast as opponents could take others down. Was I wrong in that impression? If I was right, then that would have to be a factor--in addition to limiting how many can be taken down in a day. If you are losing t-gen battles, I don't think you should be able to keep pace by just putting up new ones.
Regarding the other defense towers one can put up around t-gens, I was surprised that AfricanPenguins (and others?) was able to take a Dragonstone t-gen that had all four possible defensive towers. It seems like a tall order. With that in mind, I wonder if those defensive towers could balance things somewhat. Maybe have those towers more easily available to towns that are not part of the ruling alliance (wait, I'm not sure--is there a cost to place each individual defensive tower?). And the ruling alliance could have restrictions on how many defensive towers (if any) could be set up. Or ruling alliance t-gens could have weaker golems (and stronger golems to others).
By the way, in all the t-gen battles in the Argus offensive, I believe only one t-gen had a defensive tower--one TNT tower that did cause us some difficulties (two of us died from TNT blasts). Encountering fully defended t-gens would have slowed down that Argus offensive.
And for the record, Haven was left out of the offensive. As an Eros member, with so many Eros t-gens having been attacked, I got the same jaded view of the opposition (which was enhanced by the rp trash talking, of course).I don't think it fits this thread or section of the forum, but it might do for us all to hear the story of how Argus came into power (I have little knowledge of it). Maybe there is already a thread about it?
Back on topic, DarkCartographer, ColorAutumnus and I were relocating t-gens at the time of some of the attacks against Argus. I had the impression that we could have kept pace, putting up new t-gens as fast as opponents could take others down. Was I wrong in that impression? If I was right, then that would have to be a factor--in addition to limiting how many can be taken down in a day. If you are losing t-gen battles, I don't think you should be able to keep pace by just putting up new ones.
Regarding the other defense towers one can put up around t-gens, I was surprised that AfricanPenguins (and others?) was able to take a Dragonstone t-gen that had all four possible defensive towers. It seems like a tall order. With that in mind, I wonder if those defensive towers could balance things somewhat. Maybe have those towers more easily available to towns that are not part of the ruling alliance (wait, I'm not sure--is there a cost to place each individual defensive tower?). And the ruling alliance could have restrictions on how many defensive towers (if any) could be set up. Or ruling alliance t-gens could have weaker golems (and stronger golems to others).
By the way, in all the t-gen battles in the Argus offensive, I believe only one t-gen had a defensive tower--one TNT tower that did cause us some difficulties (two of us died from TNT blasts). Encountering fully defended t-gens would have slowed down that Argus offensive.
AfricanPenguins
Member
You complain about getting your tgens attacked but in all reality you were never there to defend them. That was someone elses job. we maybe got 3 in a couple weeks, argus got about 40 in a day or two
AfricanPenguins, you are terribly wrong, and I have no complaints. I'll not bicker it further, as it is the bigger picture that is important.
I am interested to hear your thoughts about the t-gen defensive towers.
George Carlin once asked, "Have you ever noticed how anyone driving faster than you is a [jerk] and anyone driving slower than you is a moron?"
I am interested to hear your thoughts about the t-gen defensive towers.
George Carlin once asked, "Have you ever noticed how anyone driving faster than you is a [jerk] and anyone driving slower than you is a moron?"
Ironically, the person primarily responsible for this most recent offensive immediately quit Argus out of guilt, rejoined just long enough to have Citadel removed out of spite directed towards me, then quit again. RIP.
Like I've said a few times now, Argus's success boils down to consistent effort and activity. Most people on Loka get sick of constant territory battles after awhile, and usually can only keep up a few attacks every few days. Not so with Argus, they can keep up a sustained offensive on a clockwork timer for 48-72 hours and wipe out an entire alliance's worth of territory. If anyone else had that sort of time and energy on their hands, sure, a worthy rival to Argus might crop up. But as I said, most people just can't be bothered.
EDIT: Lol, I came back the next day and realized this post had come out as one big quote. Fixed.
Last edited:
Eros was left out of the vast majority of the attacks, after a few initial raids I changed priority to Samsara.
Obviously on the whole matter I'm fully behind Crypt here also.
Wow, that took forever to read. I honestly don't know where to start, so I guess I'll give Dellsmite's status on the server. After most of my members either became inactive or went onto new towns I have been alone in my town, slowly going insane with my several cats and turtle ducks. Dellsmite was apart of the Vanguard, but I played almost no part in the actual "war" (mostly provided beer for the victors to drink in the twilight of their glorious triumph). Since the fall of the Vanguard I have remained a passive, wild town not getting involved in anyone's problems, for the most part. I have thrown my opinion on the imaginary wars here and there, and some people have caught it.
Yes I think that there is a huge imbalance in Loka, but I don't think straight up war is the answer either. As a passive player I can say that I don't like the idea of war and just want to make a nice town for my friends and members to enjoy. With the last few months there has been a massive dry spell of pretty much everything on Loka. This dry spell ranges from our PvP to our RP and so on. Everyone can agree that losing sucks, but most people of sound body and mind rage for three minutes then brood for an hour before brushing away the dust and starting again. A good example of this is the recent loss of Ivette and her quitting because of one raid that she deemed "unfair".
I think what Loka is lacking most in is a new generation of new players, people who are new to the server and can help it progress by not having old or bias grudges towards other players. Hiring YouTubers on paper seemed like a good idea, but they quickly lost interest and left, taking their audience with them. I think we should have the veterans post regular YouTube videos about our features (showing towns, PvP mini-games, territories, RP) so it can appeal to everyone. Minecraft parody songs, of well animated and have a decent song, are very popular and can be a really easy way to attract new players.
Loka also needs a clear direction on where to go, as well as people to rely on to represent the general public of the server, a bit like a council. For the most part the high admin team has been the council with Crypt making final judgement. People just dumping suggestions onto Crypt and the other admins, with most of them being very good, make them overwhelmed and causes them to have zero direction. We need to have a clear direction before progressing with the server, and right now I think our main goal should be finding a new player base for the next generation of Loka players.
We can't souly rely on war and PvP to attract new players, but we can't ignore it either. A server restart I think wouldn't solve anything either, other then making a few weeks of set backs before the power players get their act back together. Loka is such a great server because it can appeal to such a wide array of players, but right now it doesn't because it is so lost in its misdirection. We need to step back and figure out where to take Loka so we can make it into an even better, more fun server.
Also being bitter about the current situation and towards Argus doesn't help anyone.
Yes I think that there is a huge imbalance in Loka, but I don't think straight up war is the answer either. As a passive player I can say that I don't like the idea of war and just want to make a nice town for my friends and members to enjoy. With the last few months there has been a massive dry spell of pretty much everything on Loka. This dry spell ranges from our PvP to our RP and so on. Everyone can agree that losing sucks, but most people of sound body and mind rage for three minutes then brood for an hour before brushing away the dust and starting again. A good example of this is the recent loss of Ivette and her quitting because of one raid that she deemed "unfair".
I think what Loka is lacking most in is a new generation of new players, people who are new to the server and can help it progress by not having old or bias grudges towards other players. Hiring YouTubers on paper seemed like a good idea, but they quickly lost interest and left, taking their audience with them. I think we should have the veterans post regular YouTube videos about our features (showing towns, PvP mini-games, territories, RP) so it can appeal to everyone. Minecraft parody songs, of well animated and have a decent song, are very popular and can be a really easy way to attract new players.
Loka also needs a clear direction on where to go, as well as people to rely on to represent the general public of the server, a bit like a council. For the most part the high admin team has been the council with Crypt making final judgement. People just dumping suggestions onto Crypt and the other admins, with most of them being very good, make them overwhelmed and causes them to have zero direction. We need to have a clear direction before progressing with the server, and right now I think our main goal should be finding a new player base for the next generation of Loka players.
We can't souly rely on war and PvP to attract new players, but we can't ignore it either. A server restart I think wouldn't solve anything either, other then making a few weeks of set backs before the power players get their act back together. Loka is such a great server because it can appeal to such a wide array of players, but right now it doesn't because it is so lost in its misdirection. We need to step back and figure out where to take Loka so we can make it into an even better, more fun server.
Also being bitter about the current situation and towards Argus doesn't help anyone.
Tygah
New Member
So much this.
AfricanPenguins
Member
You think the "power players" are solely in Argus right now? Because that's BS. Many new players or atleast a couple of them have joined the server who had the potential to become great, but with the current situation that is damn impossible. With a map reset those players with potential will come back and finally feel like they have a chance to become capitol. As of now there is not a decent competitor for the capitol position because these new players who have come and tried to make successful towns have just gotten destroyed with the reality that Argus is unbeatable and that destroys the game, its like a Prius racing a Ferrari, its not gonna happen no matter how experienced the Prius driver is because the Ferrari has better parts. A map reset is the only way to fix this.