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True, and I believe most slicers are on the forums already.Cryptite said:
Soooo much content in this thread, I don't know where to start. I don't have a burning desire to cover everything anybody has said, though. I just need to convey my opinions and experiences relative to the topic. Lucky me. :|
O-K, admin abuse. I'd say that any situation in which an admin uses his powers against someone raiding, looting, murdering, etc, falls under the lowest category of abuse. Acting wounded and persecuted after an admin interferes with you doing that is outrageous, period. Not to say that sort of abuse should be ignored, but taken with the same gravity as actual, hard-hitting admin abuse? Ridiculous.
Admins using their powers in private, for fun, in a way that doesn't hurt anyone and doesn't benefit them in any substantial way is fine by me (ex. bacon vanishing while falling through the air). In fact, I don't see any other way that someone could get used to their powers, outside of a situation that called for them.
I find it rather ironic that our most harmfully abusive admins (actually, 2/3 of the people I'm indicating are no longer admins) are the ones most zealously attacking our least harmful abusive admins, mop and bacon.
Mralchemy, I really agree with what you've said here. I'm sorry if I came across as a bit impatient on the server in the past.
I'd like to put forward some suggestions for reforming our admin system, but I don't think I'm exactly qualified to make that decision. Mag, Crypt, and Asymp have my full confidence.
O-K, admin abuse. I'd say that any situation in which an admin uses his powers against someone raiding, looting, murdering, etc, falls under the lowest category of abuse. Acting wounded and persecuted after an admin interferes with you doing that is outrageous, period. Not to say that sort of abuse should be ignored, but taken with the same gravity as actual, hard-hitting admin abuse? Ridiculous.
Admins using their powers in private, for fun, in a way that doesn't hurt anyone and doesn't benefit them in any substantial way is fine by me (ex. bacon vanishing while falling through the air). In fact, I don't see any other way that someone could get used to their powers, outside of a situation that called for them.
I find it rather ironic that our most harmfully abusive admins (actually, 2/3 of the people I'm indicating are no longer admins) are the ones most zealously attacking our least harmful abusive admins, mop and bacon.
Mralchemy, I really agree with what you've said here. I'm sorry if I came across as a bit impatient on the server in the past.
I'd like to put forward some suggestions for reforming our admin system, but I don't think I'm exactly qualified to make that decision. Mag, Crypt, and Asymp have my full confidence.
Well Art, admin abuse is admin abuse no matter how you look at it. There is no excusing it, or trying to look at it like it isn't a big deal. An abusive admin shouldn't be an admin at all. Abusing admin powers in combat is just as bad as using hacks, as it gives you an upper-hand and unfair advantage. Using them in private is just as bad, and is very silly. It is unnecessary to tp to high y values then vanish to break your fall, or to use vanish to break a fall after someone pushes you off a high point in the nether. *cough* Vanishing in combat is unacceptable, teleporting to combat as well as teleporting out of combat is just as bad. Administrator powers are for administrating, not for personal use. In addition, I'd like you to tell me how Nou, Zor and I were, or in my case, are harmfully abusive.Artagan said:
It is not a flame war, and it has been confirmed that Nouv and Zor's demotions were due to a mistake in reading the logs. I, on the other hand, have no powers to abuse. I cannot spawn even if I want to. I'm sure I could ban anyone that annoys me but that'd be horrid. I log-blocked one theft, and it was because I suspected bug abuse, and I was right. I have no real powers to abuse in combat. So please tell me how we are, or were, the most abusive admins. Epic teleported everywhere and used his powers to do dumb things along with using them in combat. Mop used them quite often in combat, not to mention when he briefly had World Edit, and used them to make glowstone shrines. How is it the offenses Nouv and Zor were accused of are the same as the ones Epic and Mop are accused of, yet Epic and Mop are our least harmful abusive admins? Or were you not prepared to back your so ignorantly conveyed argument? So please Art, do tell me how we are the most harmful abusive admins.Artagan said:...why the extremely small text?
Also, I'm not going to let you bait me into a flame war. Sorry.
Now I'm going to stoop down to your level and look like an idiot because of it... great.
Zor and Nouv abused their admin powers on numerous occasions, particularly as Guardians. Nouv tped to me while vanished when I was in my knife chamber, then told you where the knife chamber was based on that knowledge. Nouv also smited mop for little to no reason, jailed people with little to no reason, and did a fair amount of pvping despite his rank; roughly the same goes for Zor.
You on the other hand have abused people, as apposed to your rank, as far as I know. I just got off the server, where I sat in silence while you verbally berated me for my un-supported arguement, in a similar but vastly more hostile and contemptuous manner than you did in your previous post. Even Zor has admitted to me in the past that, as far as bullying goes, you constitute an even greater threat than bigpizza did.
The truly rich, hilarious part of it, though, is that while you were insulting me you said something along the lines of "You've got some brown on your nose". I find that awesome, considering you were besties with mop, trying to influence him enough to have his support in your promotion, which you got, up until the current situation when you immediately pointed out his each and every flaw. Not that you didn't already do that when he was offline, to an even nastier extent.
Also, in continuance of that last point, I do not want to be promoted any time soon, IF EVER. Being an admin is a huge responsiblility, and only people really confident in their ability to make good choices, and actually in possession of the ability, ought to achieve admin rank. Nor do I give a flying frog if anyone likes me or not, regardless of their rank. If I did, I wouldn't be writing this ridiculous post right now, making me like a purple-buttocked baboon for feeding the trolls.
Zor and Nouv abused their admin powers on numerous occasions, particularly as Guardians. Nouv tped to me while vanished when I was in my knife chamber, then told you where the knife chamber was based on that knowledge. Nouv also smited mop for little to no reason, jailed people with little to no reason, and did a fair amount of pvping despite his rank; roughly the same goes for Zor.
You on the other hand have abused people, as apposed to your rank, as far as I know. I just got off the server, where I sat in silence while you verbally berated me for my un-supported arguement, in a similar but vastly more hostile and contemptuous manner than you did in your previous post. Even Zor has admitted to me in the past that, as far as bullying goes, you constitute an even greater threat than bigpizza did.
The truly rich, hilarious part of it, though, is that while you were insulting me you said something along the lines of "You've got some brown on your nose". I find that awesome, considering you were besties with mop, trying to influence him enough to have his support in your promotion, which you got, up until the current situation when you immediately pointed out his each and every flaw. Not that you didn't already do that when he was offline, to an even nastier extent.
Also, in continuance of that last point, I do not want to be promoted any time soon, IF EVER. Being an admin is a huge responsiblility, and only people really confident in their ability to make good choices, and actually in possession of the ability, ought to achieve admin rank. Nor do I give a flying frog if anyone likes me or not, regardless of their rank. If I did, I wouldn't be writing this ridiculous post right now, making me like a purple-buttocked baboon for feeding the trolls.
Well then, it's a good thing abusing people isn't an abuse of what little admin powers I have, because morality has nothing to do with being an admin. It all comes down to what is in the rules. I will not try to argue every point that you've made, because quite honestly they're all still very poorly supported and I'd rather not stoop any lower than I already have. I can't say I remember abusing people too much either. I mean I relentlessly raided Central for a good time, but that isn't really abusing people, I have made peace with Luci, Cap and Comp. My scuffles with The Reach are the same, they were small and there was no real fighting, not anything comparable to what I'd done in the past. How does one abuse a person via video game? Please, do not compare me to bigpizza. If you really want me to I could go to what bigpizza was and burn everything I've ever stolen so that nobody else can have it. Or I could abuse glitches until I'm banned, or I could try to blow up the server. Aside from being a thief, how am I like bigpizza? I will tell you like I had told Def before, I am not afraid to pull out what part of bigpizza is left behind with me and show you what evil is like via video game. I can be a menace to the server until I'm banned if you want me to be anything like bigpizza. I think I'm done arguing, though you never had any real argument.Artagan said:
Artagan said:
Mop used to smite carelessly and caused many people to lose their items. Nouv smited him to teach him a lesson. Mop, amazingly, was extremely offended but has been much more careful with who he chooses to smite. His other incidents I cannot justify. As for me, PvP is quite legal for guardians as stated by Mag and Asy. Unfortunately I'm a bit too good at it so things like this happen. Fortunately my slicer rank has not inhibited that skill and I remain one of the server's largest terrors.
Crypt also came onto the console a couple days ago to explain the demotions. He had absolutely no idea why Nouv was demoted but told me I was demoted purely because I vanished while in combat. However, I have only vanished once in combat while outside admin duties and if he had looked at the chat he would've seen that I wasn't even in the combat and I received permission from the person under siege to vanish and watch from the top of his wall. Go ask Defgnww if you don't believe me.
Anything else you have on me?
It's funny crypt wud say that - we submitted a stack of evidence on another post... Which he was involved in and demoted you because of it.
Ok with regards to what is admin abuse, we are changing and writing up what each rank can and cant do. Some info is already up in the promotion forum. This means we are going to be at a point where it is difficult to abuse your powers and there will be a clear rule set to avoid confusion. Sentries will be able to play like any other player (which is how it should be now) and cannot be accused of abusing their powers as they have none to abuse other than using /spawn in pvp and using ban and kick inappropriately. Guardians will become peaceful and not be able to pvp, steal, etc. This means not everyone will want to become a guardian and will make it clearer what is and isnt abuse. I believe we are going to allow guardians to use their powers in their home town/town they own, so anyone inside the protection can be attacked by them but as soon as they step out guardians cannot touch them.
They can do anything within their power but only within their own town. This cud be pvp or smite or vanish etc
So how do you raid the town of an admin?
Also Adder, please point out where this stack of evidence is because I do not see any against me. I will freely admit to using the /jail command to show people around the server and I used smite to play with spammers and griefers, but I don't think anyone here considers that abuse. It may be careless use of power but considering I still did everything that was expected of a guardian and more (even Line admits I did about 80% of all admin work) there shouldn't be much of a problem.
Also Adder, please point out where this stack of evidence is because I do not see any against me. I will freely admit to using the /jail command to show people around the server and I used smite to play with spammers and griefers, but I don't think anyone here considers that abuse. It may be careless use of power but considering I still did everything that was expected of a guardian and more (even Line admits I did about 80% of all admin work) there shouldn't be much of a problem.
Okay, Bacon here. Why do you guys continue to flame at each other? Mop isn't going to step down like I did. You already completed 2 out of the 3 things you set out to accomplish here so why are you still flaming about it, I hate to make a rude post but seriously, it's getting a bit childish now.
Oh definitely, there's nothing left to gain. I would like to prove that I did nothing wrong though. The reason I was demoted was because some of you dislike my style of playing and I am a bit too... well I don't want to say powerful, but I know a lot more about the server and commands than most. And that's fine as long as that is the reason you state. Not abuse.
K
KenuDragonfire
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Oh and, please, for the love of the community of the server, lock this. Lock this before anyone else can post on here.
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