Suggestion Crystal Meta is dragging Loka in the wrong direction.

[Snoccy]

+1 THANK YOU

 

[Magpieman]

I still stand by my suggestion of making crystals ignore resistance so crystalers' role takes skill, because as it stands relatively new and inexperienced players are taking crystals into fights, killing themselves with them (which itself is surprising because they only deal 1-2 hearts to them with turtlemaster while facehugging the crystals), essentially two-tapping anyone that walks within their chunk of a tile's chokepoint, and topping damage charts consistently with little thought or risk.

While an elegant solution, this is effectively making the true damage, which would be massively inconsistent with other mechanics as no player items do this.

On top of that proposed change, I'd ask for potions of nullifying to remove turtle master's slowness and resistance, both to use as a counter to crystalers and have turtle master tipped arrows not slow oneself if that's still a thing.

While this may help with the problem, again the issue with this is consistency. Nullifying potions only remove debuffs and having lots of edge cases for these where they remove buffs if it's turtle potion isn't very intuitive.

Quite frankly, reverting crystals to vanilla mechanics while keeping the damage they are at now wouldnt change a thing. people would set up giant obsidian patches in the middle and whenever someone gets close, they just have to hit them now. I think the problem is turtle pots. It makes the crystaller nearly impossible to kill while they can just spam left and right click and kill everyone within a 6 block radius almost instantly. While reverting crystals to vanilla mechanics may require a bit more skill in a 1v1 situation, it wouldnt make a difference in fights such as the one we had today that piggang was talking about. Someone would dig one block into the ground and would still see the same results. IMO turtle pots should just be nerfed or removed totally, but maybe im just biased because i think turtle pots, crystal or not, are a pretty stupid thing to have in conquest.

This is spot on. Vanilla mechanics are not smart, nor the answer. It would simply revert everything to the old days, which people hated and all came together to nerf.


The problem is simply with turtle potions not how crystals work. Therefore the solution would be to either look into a counter to turtle potions or nerf/remove them. We will have a look into all the options and will at least make some kind of change in 2 weeks for the next conquest cycle to change things up.

 

[kiadmowi]

While an elegant solution, this is effectively making the true damage, which would be massively inconsistent with other mechanics as no player items do this.

True, but with end crystal explosions already being inconsistent compared to all of minecraft's vanilla explosions in that they completely ignore blocks players may be standing behind and essentially do true damage through terrain, another inconsistency for the sake of balance and skill expression could be warranted.

Alternatively, as suggested by xForerunner even, the level of resistance gained from turtle master potions could be lowered to resistance 2 for extended turtle master and resistance 3 for turtle master 2 while leaving the slowness and durations unchanged so they take more damage from both their own crystals and other sources. This would still almost require the next point though:

While this may help with the problem, again the issue with this is consistency. Nullifying potions only remove debuffs and having lots of edge cases for these where they remove buffs if it's turtle potion isn't very intuitive.

This isn't true. Being able to remove any unwanted effect with debuff resistance despite them being buffs, like how invisibility and jump boost get removed, means turtle master being non-removable is the only inconsistency here. This being a counter to crystalers is just a necessary cherry on top.

 

[Marioistrash]

The problem is simply with turtle potions not how crystals work. Therefore the solution would be to either look into a counter to turtle potions or nerf/remove them. We will have a look into all the options and will at least make some kind of change in 2 weeks for the next conquest cycle to change things up.

what im saying

 

[Magpieman]

This isn't true. Being able to remove any unwanted effect with debuff resistance despite them being buffs, like how invisibility and jump boost get removed, means turtle master being non-removable is the only inconsistency here. This being a counter to crystalers is just a necessary cherry on top.

Turtle master is not a stand-alone buff. So yes it is true. Potion effects are what nullifying removes and turtle master gives 2 different ones, one buff one debuff.

True, but with end crystal explosions already being inconsistent compared to all of minecraft's vanilla explosions in that they completely ignore blocks players may be standing behind and essentially do true damage through terrain, another inconsistency for the sake of balance and skill expression could be warranted.

In which case I would argue this should be changed to be mitigated by blocks as this is not the intention.

Edit: Looks like we do this is so digging one block down doesn't mitigate 90% of the damage to the crystaler. Minecraft explosion damage be dumb.

 

[nerdcat]

You can get in the hole with them and be on the same Y Level, and chase them around that hole. rather now you just can't go near them

It would force everyone to bring a shovel/blocks because someone with a shovel can always outdig someone without one

 

[koi0001]

I'd suggest removing turtle pots, nerfing damage of the crystals themselves, or making a cooldown on placing crystals / hitting crystals.

It always comes back to nerfing turtle master. I agree with that idea.

 

[Lurnn]

It would force everyone to bring a shovel/blocks because someone with a shovel can always outdig someone without one

or just go in the hole with them.

regardless i like some of the other ideas more, im merely saying that its a lot better than current meta

 

[36s]

The problem is simply with turtle potions not how crystals work. Therefore the solution would be to either look into a counter to turtle potions or nerf/remove them. We will have a look into all the options and will at least make some kind of change in 2 weeks for the next conquest cycle to change things up.

Thanks Mag, I'm looking forward to what you guys change!

 

[3D3R]

dont remove the turtle master pots as how I will kill the whiter

 

[jakeman5]

dont remove the turtle master pots as how I will kill the whiter

The wither shouldn't have an effect on the rest of conquest. That should be dealt with independently.

 

[koi0001]

The wither shouldn't have an effect on the rest of conquest. That should be dealt with independently.

That's lcr talk if I've ever heard it

 

[Lurnn]

That's lcr talk if I've ever heard it

afk

 

[FoxyBearGames]

The wither shouldn't have an effect on the rest of conquest. That should be dealt with independently.

Although a discussion for another day, the wither definitely needs to be changed if turtle potions do receive a nerf.

 

[nerdcat]

or just go in the hole with them.

regardless i like some of the other ideas more, im merely saying that its a lot better than current meta

They can dig down farther tho and their always gonna win a crit trade with a turtle pot

 

[Lurnn]

They can dig down farther tho and their always gonna win a crit trade with a turtle pot

If they are using turtle master pots with the shovel strat they are now infinitely slow and stuck.

 

[bat3415]

Although a discussion for another day, the wither definitely needs to be changed if turtle potions do receive a nerf.

People fought the wither before turtle pots

 

[ThePigGang]

People fought the wither before turtle pots

yeah but im pretty sure the wither got buffed

 

[xForerunner]

People fought the wither before turtle pots

turtle pots aint even work vs wither boys, they deal true damage

 

[FatalDeath]

people would set up giant obsidian patches in the middle and whenever someone gets close, they just have to hit them now.

water buckets B^)