What's new
Loka Forums

Type /register while in-game to register for a forums account.

Suggestion Removal/Nerf to KB

Melon

Active Member
I have just recently started playing the server again (outside of duels) and have had the opportunity to experience first hand how unfair and stupidly broken KB swords still are on Loka. I had honestly thought that this would have been resolved a long time ago, as it had already seemed to be a pretty big problem on the server. I am creating this post in order to make a case for the removal of KB swords on Loka, or severely limiting them in some way, but also for those who see this issue differently than me to express their opinions and give alternate arguments or solutions.

From my point of view, there are only 2 reasonable arguments for keeping KB. These are knocking charges and (maybe) chasing kills. Requiring KB for knocking charges is understandable, as it would be extremely difficult to knock charges using only a standard sword or a bow. The other argument that I have sometimes seen given is that KB is very useful for chasing. I can understand this, as it doesn't seem fair that one person should be able to kite away from 10 with no way to catch them. Back in the day bow boosting was the simple solution to this problem, as whoever was better at it would either get away or catch the other. Before my ban I began to see the transition into KB swords being used to chase others, and I'm assuming this is how the entire "KB meta" developed in the first place. Someone realized that they could just KB people off of them whenever they needed space to pot or to refill, and there was never a reason not to. Anyways, it seems somewhat fair to have this mechanic in place now so you can't easily outrun a bunch of people. But, while KB is the solution to these issues, it also creates separate problems of its own.

KB has gone from just being used to knock charges, to being used to chase kills, to now being one of the most overly used items on Loka. Whenever someone is put in disadvantage during a fight, there is really no reason to not use KB. They have no incentive to tank the chain and try to find a way out of it (except in certain situations). This means that putting pressure on someone to get a kill is much more difficult, as all they have to do is look up once and spam click you off of them, sending you flying 10 blocks away. Once this happens all kill pressure is lost, as they can refill, reshulker, or pearl away. This issue also becomes exacerbated when fighting on any type of terrain, as once you are hit down a hill or mountain it takes even longer to get back up, and if you try to pearl they could also, immediately putting you a pearl behind. It becomes almost impossible to get or chase down kills alone, as they will only die if they qd, are at 0 pots, or they are actually so slow at refilling they can't look up to hit once. The main issue is that applying the kill pressure that would lead to them qding or not being able to refill in time is also no longer possible, as they can generate space extremely easily whenever they need to. This is the entire basis of potion pvp, and having an item counter so that it can only be accomplished sometimes isn't a viable solution in my opinion.

Both main arguments for keeping KB seem to have fairly straightforward solutions, although I don't have much of an idea how complicated it would be to actually implement them. For charges, only allowing KB around the tgen would seem to be a fair, as elytras are already disabled in certain zones (this also involves the elytras being put in a state of 0 dura so idrk if it even would work), or only allowing KB to only be used on people who are charged. The same could also be done for chasing, by only allowing KB to be used on teammates. I also have no idea if these solutions could actually be implemented, I'm just thinking of any potential way that might work.

Again, this thread is more an attempt to raise this issue for discussion, and try to gather more perspectives and arguments on this issue, especially those in support of keeping KB for generic use and why. I do not know the best way to solve this issue, I only know what I believe. KB seems to be broken, and I think it should be fixed. I look forward to seeing and debating your perspectives.

-Melon
 
13 voters
I appreciate the well thought-out and well written post Melon.

I'm not advocating for this change just yet but it just sounds like KB should be an ability, which means it should have a cooldown. The ability to spam kb in a 360 and successfully punch everybody you touch back in short order is, to me, the big problem with KB. Having a big kb ability isn't bad by itself, but the fact that it is infinitely usable is the gameplay element that is, frankly, wrong. If you need to create space, you should have to consider when to use that ability just the same as somebody has to consider when to use a bola on somebody.
I think that would be a fair solution, if put on a long enough cooldown. Players still retain the ability to generate space if too much pressure is put on them, but have to choose when is the best time to do this. But there is still the problem of KB being used when kiting, as when it’s used you will generally never catch them. Maybe to balance this aspect out apply slowness for a short time as well as a short pearl cd. This will give the player time to refill, but not afford them so much space as to make them unkillable when kiting.
 
Maybe to balance this aspect out apply slowness for a short time as well as a short pearl cd

Less is more here imo. Depends on the CD of course, but also adding pearl cd + slow is a nerf so big i think it would kill KB entirely. In theory, KB and Bola should be roughly similar abilities to use such that in a kiting scenario, it can come down to who uses their ability better. At the same time though, I don't know if kiting is meant to be something that should be impossible.
 
Less is more here imo. Depends on the CD of course, but also adding pearl cd + slow is a nerf so big i think it would kill KB entirely. In theory, KB and Bola should be roughly similar abilities to use such that in a kiting scenario, it can come down to who uses their ability better. At the same time though, I don't know if kiting is meant to be something that should be impossible.
Yeah it might be a bit much, but kiting is already ridiculously easy in Minecraft. Combining KB with this gives no way to catch someone unless you have an entire group chasing them, and even then it can be tough lol. A player can survive being hit by a webbed bola, but once you are hit by KB it is typically impossible to catch back up with them unless they seriously mess up.
 
Honestly conquest is so dead it doesn’t even matter anymore
yea conquest is lowk dry af
Historically speaking this usually happens when all the half-decent people on the server are allied with each other which seems to be the case after some /finds. Disband and fight each other. The contrary is you wait for new blood to join the server and fight against you which is unlikely.
 
+1

imo this whole situation is comparable (but in a very different sense) to that of debuffs, at first it was okay if you got splashed fair enough drink milk rebuff move on, it takes a bit of skill,
At first with KB people just used it to boost, nothing more really, it was seen as BM (Bad manner) to use it just to spam people away and you'd just be labelled as bad or annoying, made pvp boring so people didn't do it,
Then comes a change (for debuffs first) crossbows! it became too easy and too unreasonable to not take advantage of it, everyone else was why wouldn't you! if you can't beat them join them, introduce DBR: no one cares or uses them now and the game is overall more fun
For KB something obviously needs to be introduced, it's become unfun, normalised and overused, my last experiece playing lokamc conquest was not fun due to this trend just coming over the horizon and begining (this was all the way last year I haven't played a conquest fight in 2023!) so I empathise with those who have had to deal with KB in this past year.

Charges are the only issue to this obviously but adding a cooldown is the right element, afterall not everyone would have the cooldown and could just add a cool team element back to conquest with needing multiple defenders to knock a charge!

I unfortunately don't have the time to read all the other responses so sorry if I'm repeating something already stated a dozen times, I read the OP and a few recent responses.

Props to Melon for writing it all up
 
+1 Conquest fights have become extremely boring because of all the KB spammers. There is definitely room for a cooldown.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top