Suggestion Removal/Nerf to KB

[Melon]

I’ve said that before, but I honestly think that if you are part of the « good players » then you almost definitely have enough game knowledge to figure out a workaround to your opponents spamming KB

My entire argument is that you CAN’T stick them. You can generate space whenever you want by hitting them with KB, there’s no way to apply pressure anymore.

Plenty of people still get kills/win fights even against the top players using kb, so I don’t see how the skill ceiling gets extremely damaged from such a feature?

but at the same time it makes better players invincible. This makes it so that in conquest, the majority of people who die in the beginning are just newer players who can't even survive with kb. There is no way to target and take out better players, you won't be able to kill them.

The only time people die now adays is if they accidentally pot late, are getting ganked by like 3+ people, or if they are actually completely out of potions. It is no longer possible to utilize the 33% damage increase to apply kill pressure, unless you are swarming the other player with a horde of people.

Actual players are not going to die until they are outnumbered.

Also you talk about playing around your team, but we still see how recruits die despite fighting an isolated opponent in a 4v1… If they don’t know how to play well on loka yet, they obviously need something to help them survive a bit while they learn the ropes.

Yeah, it helps them survive if they have no idea how to refill. But it also effects every other player on the server who already does know how to refill. There has to be SOME skill requirement in order to play conquest. KB isn't saving some recruit from qding on their face while in a 4v1.

In any case, you won’t get kills by mainhanding KB. You’ll probably even get targeted for playing like that, so imo players will eventually stray away from using a KB sword as their main weapon and transition to a more traditional potpvp playstyle, so as to get the coveted loka kill ego boost.

Mainhanding KB is not the problem, its the way that KB is used to remove pressure whenever you are put in disadvantage. You don't need to learn how to refill properly or escape a chain when you have KB. Advantage state doesn't exist anymore, you just take neutral trades until they are drained. That is how it takes away from the actual skill ceiling. And on the topic of mainhanding, while it doesn't give the player using it a way to get kills, do you think its fair to be completely immune to being chased unless its a group of like 3+ people?

Once again, KB abuse is only noticeable and ultimately « unbearable » in higher level circles, of which only a few members wish to remove the KB enchantment, judging from the reactions to your post.

It's unbearable to players who play the actual gamemode. Diamond pot with KB is just an indefinite neutral state until a player has to reshulker. Everyone enjoys using it as a crutch as it is easy to use and they don't die, rather than being forced to learn how to actually refill in any sort of 1v1 or escape a chain. And in conquest, you are no longer able to play for kills, you can only play for damage unless you are targeting someone with a group of people. You are immediately KBed off whoever you chase, by them and their teammates.

 

[Deeuss]

Suggestion on KB Nerf
-Make the sword's KB2 be dependant and the sword cooldown
Per example, while you are sticking on someone, and they turn around, they only have to spam click to send you flying like you are some ragdoll character in dragon ball Z

Why not make this mechanic skill based?
If you are sticking someone and they turn around with their KB2, make only the fully charged hit count for KB2, if they MISS, then they shouldn't be able to spam click like its 1.8 and get you away, they should be punished by that miss


Edit:
By doing this, you would make KB2 skill based due to having to hit the 180 hit fast, and also wait for the timing, you can just turn around immediately, spam and then pot, but you can pot, fully heal yourself, turn around, wait for the cooldown (0,5 seconds), Aim and then hit the enemy, bonus points if you hit them while jumping (Makes them go fly away further :O)

This would make movement 2000 times more important, circling around the opponent making sure he doesn't hit you, while the KB user has to NOT panic, stay cool, aim and hit
Beautiful in my opinion.

A full removal of KB2 just doesn't seem likely due to its many uses previously stated. What do you think of this?

 

[doota]

simply make kb2 deal no damage

 

[Melon]

Suggestion on KB Nerf
-Make the sword's KB2 be dependant and the sword cooldown
Per example, while you are sticking on someone, and they turn around, they only have to spam click to send you flying like you are some ragdoll character in dragon ball Z

Why not make this mechanic skill based?
If you are sticking someone and they turn around with their KB2, make only the fully charged hit count for KB2, if they MISS, then they shouldn't be able to spam click like its 1.8 and get you away, they should be punished by that miss


Edit:
By doing this, you would make KB2 skill based due to having to hit the 180 hit fast, and also wait for the timing, you can just turn around immediately, spam and then pot, but you can pot, fully heal yourself, turn around, wait for the cooldown (0,5 seconds), Aim and then hit the enemy, bonus points if you hit them while jumping (Makes them go fly away further :O)

This would make movement 2000 times more important, circling around the opponent making sure he doesn't hit you, while the KB user has to NOT panic, stay cool, aim and hit
Beautiful in my opinion.

A full removal of KB2 just doesn't seem likely due to its many uses previously stated. What do you think of this?

I like this idea, but I feel like this will just hurt recruits more and better players less, as it is less likely that a better player will miss and a new player will have a harder time landing their hit. If real skill expression was necessary in order to accomplish something similar to KB, it just makes sense to have bows to replace them. That way if you want someone off of you you have to turn and shoot them, versus just hitting someone normally. This allows you to generate space but takes more time than just waiting for a sword to recharge, and accuracy while shooting with the bow. Equally as difficult for both better and new players. I just don't see why it is necessary to keep KB while other items exist that accomplish the same thing, but aren't extremely easy to use.

 

[Deeuss]

I like this idea, but I feel like this will just hurt recruits more and better players less, as it is less likely that a better player will miss and a new player will have a harder time landing their hit. If real skill expression was necessary in order to accomplish something similar to KB, it just makes sense to have bows to replace them. That way if you want someone off of you you have to turn and shoot them, versus just hitting someone normally. This allows you to generate space but takes more time than just waiting for a sword to recharge, and accuracy while shooting with the bow. Equally as difficult for both better and new players. I just don't see why it is necessary to keep KB while other items exist that accomplish the same thing, but aren't extremely easy to use.

Sure but fully removing it would also hurt recruits, its not like its that hard to do a 90 degree or 180 degree spin and hit someone who is like 1 block away from you, I just over-exagerated it.
Bow Boosting and Punch 2 bows sounds even more horrible, imagine chasing someone that is 7 blocks away from you and he hits 2 bow shots... At least they have to be close to hit you with KB2
Also how would you KB people off charges without KB, would you pull out your bow and start shooting them? It just sounds really dumb

With my suggestion I feel like more people would simply switch to an axe to break shields or to firestone instead of KB2, and only people who are really confident on using KB would do it, also people who consider themselves defenders to KB people off, etc

Also, maybe a good player turns around and hits 180, he still has many problems
-Depending on the terrain, maybe he didn't hit you that far away, you could be inside a lower Y area, and he could only kb you 3-4 blocks away, he would still have to refill very fast and then run away
-For him to efficiently KB he would have to time the hit, while tanking the enemy players' hits for when he is jumping, and during that small period of time, you could easily get killed
-And after everything, if he actually misses the KB hit, waiting for the cooldown again is basically impossible, it literally means instant death, he would have to refill, pot, and then try again
-If they see that they have died a decent amount of times due to them missing their Hits with KB, they will probably switch it up for something else

As you stated before, if im not mistaken, recruits will die anyways, with or without KB until they learn how to pot, especially in fights in middle where they are easily concentrated on. Recruits dying is not because of KB or not, people should get that idea out of their heads, its because they are focused by the good people because they are the only ones who actually die. They are known by name, or just looked up on eldritchbot, I am more confident chasing some 2/50 KD timmy than chasing babysoy or Deivi, why? Because I know that if I just strafe a little while chasing timmy he will not be able to get me away, while the others will, 100%.

With this change that I proposed, carries would die more, due to them missing the hit, or just deciding not to use KB (Its not like their deaths are going to spike up a load more, instead of 17/0/5 they are gonna go 17/1/5 maybe, but its a start) When people see that these carries can also die, they will continue chasing them like normal players, instead of just giving up because its a complete waste of time. Right now thats impossible

The problem is mostly focused on KD warriors who can run around people's backs and just kill around people, get insane KDAs like 17-0-6, while also they are pretty much impossible to kill, the point of this nerf would be to make carries more killable, and make them think if they should use their KB swords in that situation or just wait for pearl cooldown, instead of just brainlessly turning around and spamclicking with their small 20 clicks per second fingers, creating space SHOULD be allowed, but not effortlessly

 

[Melon]

Sure but fully removing it would also hurt recruits, its not like its that hard to do a 90 degree or 180 degree spin and hit someone who is like 1 block away from you, I just over-exagerated it.
Bow Boosting and Punch 2 bows sounds even more horrible, imagine chasing someone that is 7 blocks away from you and he hits 2 bow shots... At least they have to be close to hit you with KB2
Also how would you KB people off charges without KB, would you pull out your bow and start shooting them? It just sounds really dumb

With my suggestion I feel like more people would simply switch to an axe to break shields or to firestone instead of KB2, and only people who are really confident on using KB would do it, also people who consider themselves defenders to KB people off, etc

Also, maybe a good player turns around and hits 180, he still has many problems
-Depending on the terrain, maybe he didn't hit you that far away, you could be inside a lower Y area, and he could only kb you 3-4 blocks away, he would still have to refill very fast and then run away
-For him to efficiently KB he would have to time the hit, while tanking the enemy players' hits for when he is jumping, and during that small period of time, you could easily get killed
-And after everything, if he actually misses the KB hit, waiting for the cooldown again is basically impossible, it literally means instant death, he would have to refill, pot, and then try again
-If they see that they have died a decent amount of times due to them missing their Hits with KB, they will probably switch it up for something else

As you stated before, if im not mistaken, recruits will die anyways, with or without KB until they learn how to pot, especially in fights in middle where they are easily concentrated on. Recruits dying is not because of KB or not, people should get that idea out of their heads, its because they are focused by the good people because they are the only ones who actually die. They are known by name, or just looked up on eldritchbot, I am more confident chasing some 2/50 KD timmy than chasing babysoy or Deivi, why? Because I know that if I just strafe a little while chasing timmy he will not be able to get me away, while the others will, 100%.

With this change that I proposed, carries would die more, due to them missing the hit, or just deciding not to use KB (Its not like their deaths are going to spike up a load more, instead of 17/0/5 they are gonna go 17/1/5 maybe, but its a start) When people see that these carries can also die, they will continue chasing them like normal players, instead of just giving up because its a complete waste of time. Right now thats impossible

The problem is mostly focused on KD warriors who can run around people's backs and just kill around people, get insane KDAs like 17-0-6, while also they are pretty much impossible to kill, the point of this nerf would be to make carries more killable, and make them think if they should use their KB swords in that situation or just wait for pearl cooldown, instead of just brainlessly turning around and spamclicking with their small 20 clicks per second fingers, creating space SHOULD be allowed, but not effortlessly

I get where you are going with this, but you are over exaggerating how difficult it is for a player to land a single hit. How do you think people escape chains normally. People can already carry bows, so saying that it would be overpowered to get shot away twice by someone doesn't really make sense. Even with a delay there would be no reason not to carry KB, it is still vastly more useful using to escape a chain than hitting normally. And also

From my point of view, there are only 2 reasonable arguments for keeping KB. These are knocking charges and (maybe) chasing kills. Requiring KB for knocking charges is understandable, as it would be extremely difficult to knock charges using only a standard sword or a bow. The other argument that I have sometimes seen given is that KB is very useful for chasing. I can understand this, as it doesn't seem fair that one person should be able to kite away from 10 with no way to catch them.

Both main arguments for keeping KB seem to have fairly straightforward solutions, although I don't have much of an idea how complicated it would be to actually implement them. For charges, only allowing KB around the tgen would seem to be a fair, as elytras are already disabled in certain zones (this also involves the elytras being put in a state of 0 dura so idrk if it even would work), or only allowing KB to only be used on people who are charged. The same could also be done for chasing, by only allowing KB to be used on teammates. I also have no idea if these solutions could actually be implemented, I'm just thinking of any potential way that might work.

Having the delay/requiring sword be fully charged will only work in the instance of a player being either 1 crit or 0 pots left in their hotbar, and going for a last second hit with KB out of desperation. That just isn't how it is currently used. Yes, this occasionally happens ig, but the majority of situations are players just using it to escape a chain as there's no reason to tank it, not just to avoid dying then and there. Most good players can look down to pot 2 more times if they miss a hit.

Otherwise, I agreed with everything else you said. Where I disagree though is that the player should actually have the ability to create space like this. There are plenty of ways to escape chains, and its not like its impossible just playing normally. Having KB is just a nerf to pvp in general, and I don't see what reason there is for keeping it outside of helping recruits, who already can do 10+ things to stay alive, but don't as they can just rely on KB.

 

[Deeuss]

I get where you are going with this, but you are over exaggerating how difficult it is for a player to land a single hit. How do you think people escape chains normally. People can already carry bows, so saying that it would be overpowered to get shot away twice by someone doesn't really make sense. Even with a delay there would be no reason not to carry KB, it is still vastly more useful using to escape a chain than hitting normally. And also

If I remember correctly, punch 2 KBs you away even further than KB2. And also the way I imagine bows in conquest just makes me vomit, it would be pretty dumb to see some people bow boosting around like they are caseload or some shit to chase, a bit of a clown show. I will not deny that bow boosting is a skill-based mechanic but I would actually rather keep KB swords just for aesthetics, imagine warping to a conquest and all the KD warriors are just boosting each other with bows to chase some poor little recruit in the back xD.

Having the delay/requiring sword be fully charged will only work in the instance of a player being either 1 crit or 0 pots left in their hotbar, and going for a last second hit with KB out of desperation. That just isn't how it is currently used. Yes, this occasionally happens ig, but the majority of situations are players just using it to escape a chain as there's no reason to tank it, not just to avoid dying then and there. Most good players can look down to pot 2 more times if they miss a hit.

From my experience, most of the times when KB2 is used is during times where the person is drained and is out of pots in their hotbar, so they just make up some space to refill and continue fighting. Most conquest/rivi fights are people just critting each other until the first one is drained, people rarely use KB (From what I have seen) to stop the fight even when they have pots, because if they turn around and their opponent has started to circle to the right/left and they miss, they are going to lose the momentum again and will have to reset the fight again, thus resulting in an overall disadvantage causing them to end up pearling away and having to refill while leaving their team on middle for 10-15seconds.
Also I don't think I have to, but I will remind you that you still also have to time the hit with the KB sword, if you KB someone who is in the ground and not jumping, you will barely push them away 4-5 blocks, which is basically 0,5 seconds of sprinting, and then you are mostly likely getting the first crit when you jump back into them, thus still having the momentum if you play it correctly, theres also the chance that you move correctly, or your opponent is just not having a great day and they miss their swing, which would just cause them to sprinkle immediately or just give up on the fight and pearl away

Otherwise, I agreed with everything else you said. Where I disagree though is that the player should actually have the ability to create space like this. There are plenty of ways to escape chains, and its not like its impossible just playing normally. Having KB is just a nerf to pvp in general, and I don't see what reason there is for keeping it outside of helping recruits, who already can do 10+ things to stay alive, but don't as they can just rely on KB.

Well im going to be real here, I do believe that a full removal of KB2 would make fights wayy more fun and pvp would be better, but from the way its looking, KB is just too heavily ingrained into Loka nowadays, so much that I just cant imagine it being fully removed, thus the reason why I gave this suggestion, a nerf to KB which could cause some trouble for the users who spam it.

A full removal of KB2 with support from the staff and more than 50% of the community = Impossible
Lets try to get a nerf first, and after some months people could just start talking about a removal, small and steady wins the race

 

[Melon]

Well, if punch bows really were that overpowered or better people would be using them already. But they even exist in the duel kit so they are not that broken. This along with the fact that KB could be made to still be used on allies to keep mechanics such as boosting onto an enemy. I don’t know who you are fighting in conquest, but whenever I fought a competent player and got a chain, I would immediately get hit with KB. And the only case where it may be possible to continue a chain, would be when you are landing right as the KB registers, and the other player is still moving towards you. But there is no world where you can consistently, or even sometimes, continue a chain through KB. Again, I think making KB harder to use would only hurt recruits. Better players will not miss near often enough to make this method of nerfing KB that effective. KB is only ingrained in the community as there is no reason not to use it, it is extremely easy to use and overpowered. Conquest still works as you can just play for damage, but it has completely removed the aspect of playing for kills. I just don’t see the argument to why better players should have access to an item like this. (Btw when bow boosting was meta the server was very fun, don’t hate on it that much).

 

[capybara]

Plz not this post again(cryptite delete it)

 

[capybara]

Well, if punch bows really were that overpowered or better people would be using them already. But they even exist in the duel kit so they are not that broken. This along with the fact that KB could be made to still be used on allies to keep mechanics such as boosting onto an enemy. I don’t know who you are fighting in conquest, but whenever I fought a competent player and got a chain, I would immediately get hit with KB. And the only case where it may be possible to continue a chain, would be when you are landing right as the KB registers, and the other player is still moving towards you. But there is no world where you can consistently, or even sometimes, continue a chain through KB. Again, I think making KB harder to use would only hurt recruits. Better players will not miss near often enough to make this method of nerfing KB that effective. KB is only ingrained in the community as there is no reason not to use it, it is extremely easy to use and overpowered. Conquest still works as you can just play for damage, but it has completely removed the aspect of playing for kills. I just don’t see the argument to why better players should have access to an item like this. (Btw when bow boosting was meta the server was very fun, don’t hate on it that much).

I also agree bow boosting is fun I used to use it a long time ago on other servers but
Here is the real argument to keep kb
I am bad- I am never repoting or fixing my inventory without spamming the hell outta that crap on the poor soul kill chasing me.
Sucks to suck. Until I pot machine all the pots in all my refills and inventory I am spamming the hell outta that kb until I get some one taps on some randoms #gwt betteer

 

[Deeuss]

I also agree bow boosting is fun I used to use it a long time ago on other servers but
Here is the real argument to keep kb
I am bad- I am never repoting or fixing my inventory without spamming the hell outta that crap on the poor soul kill chasing me.
Sucks to suck. Until I pot machine all the pots in all my refills and inventory I am spamming the hell outta that kb until I get some one taps on some randoms #gwt betteer

Yeah and you have to ruin other peoples' experience because you cant step up...
If you are gonna post just to troll, dont do it

 

[czmpos]

Not reading all dat, just let kb be

 

[Deeuss]

Well, if punch bows really were that overpowered or better people would be using them already. But they even exist in the duel kit so they are not that broken. This along with the fact that KB could be made to still be used on allies to keep mechanics such as boosting onto an enemy.

I never said they were OP, but it would just feel dumb in my opinion.

I don’t know who you are fighting in conquest, but whenever I fought a competent player and got a chain, I would immediately get hit with KB. And the only case where it may be possible to continue a chain, would be when you are landing right as the KB registers, and the other player is still moving towards you. But there is no world where you can consistently, or even sometimes, continue a chain through KB.

Its probably due to our ping difference im not gonna lie, I forgot about that, since you are NA you probably experienced KB in a way more punishing way
But I will still argue that the people I have fought only use KB when they are out of pots either fully, or on their hotbar, and obviously KBing away from charges and boosting, never to break out on a combo, because you can still easily reset without using KB, maybe its not used as much against me due to my ping again.

Again, I think making KB harder to use would only hurt recruits. Better players will not miss near often enough to make this method of nerfing KB that effective. KB is only ingrained in the community as there is no reason not to use it, it is extremely easy to use and overpowered. Conquest still works as you can just play for damage, but it has completely removed the aspect of playing for kills. I just don’t see the argument to why better players should have access to an item like this.

KB being harder to use will definitely hurt everyone, not just recruits, there is so many good conquest players that rely on KB a bit too much, and risking missing the hit in some situations where it isnt 100% necessary to use, (Like during a crit trade where both players are refilled) would not be too wise, it would discourage its use for sure.
With my nerf, KB would still be kind of overpowered, but it wouldnt be "extremely easy to use", so you could remove that part.

And yes, I never argued about the reasons KB is so inserted in the community, I just said that it is

(Btw when bow boosting was meta the server was very fun, don’t hate on it that much).

Well, Id have to see it to know



Im trying to help out here, a full removal of KB is not going to happen soon, the admins have already said they don't fully agree to this, and as you can see a lot of the community is disagreeing with you. Although, some players have agreed on establishing a limitation to KB, so I believe this is the correct first step, right before talking about its full removal in some far away time, like 7-8 months after this (If it occurs, of course).
You could personally try arguing in a 30 minute debate with every single member of the community that likes KB, but you are simply not going to convince them because they are just going to use the "Oh im bad and you are a good player so it only benefits you and not us" argument and there is nothing you are going to be able to do that, so for now, just push for a limitation/nerf on KB, and then when people get used to it, push for a full removal, but as it is right not it won't happen.


I will again state that I would 100% agree with a removal of KB2, since it would just make the server 300 times more fun, PvP wise especially on conquest and rivinas, but radical reforms don't come before moderate reforms, so just bear with it for now

 

[Melon]

ts probably due to our ping difference im not gonna lie, I forgot about that, since you are NA you probably experienced KB in a way more punishing way
But I will still argue that the people I have fought only use KB when they are out of pots either fully, or on their hotbar, and obviously KBing away from charges and boosting, never to break out on a combo, because you can still easily reset without using KB, maybe its not used as much against me due to my ping again.

We experience KB the same way, and when you are in a crit chain, especially against someone on higher ping or on higher ping yourself, it is not easy to escape it. Either you are targeting recruits too much or haven't been going against the right players in conquest, as whenever I try and target a better player there is no instance where they are not abusing it.

KB being harder to use will definitely hurt everyone, not just recruits, there is so many good conquest players that rely on KB a bit too much, and risking missing the hit in some situations where it isnt 100% necessary to use, (Like during a crit trade where both players are refilled) would not be too wise, it would discourage its use for sure.
With my nerf, KB would still be kind of overpowered, but it wouldnt be "extremely easy to use", so you could remove that part.
e the server 300 times more fun, PvP wise especially on conquest and rivinas, but radical reforms don't come before moderate reforms, so just bear with it for now

Well yes it will hurt everyone, but the amount that it will effect better players is much less than how much it will effect recruits. Better players will miss much less often and occasionally missing with KB is the same as missing with a normal sword. I also don't see how that will discourage its use, there is no difference between turning and hitting with a normal sword versus one with KB, other than the fact you have to take a better and longer trade in order to escape a chain, versus using KB where any hit you land will get them off of you. KB is still vastly more useful in this situation than a normal sword, and again the only instance where this will actually cause players to die is if they are using KB last second with either an empty hotbar, or while completely drained. Removing KB would force players to utilize other methods of generating space which are generally more difficult to accomplish, but not oriented specifically around diamond pot combat. It makes it not as effective/broken as KB, but still accomplishes the same thing.

Im trying to help out here, a full removal of KB is not going to happen soon, the admins have already said they don't fully agree to this, and as you can see a lot of the community is disagreeing with you. Although, some players have agreed on establishing a limitation to KB, so I believe this is the correct first step, right before talking about its full removal in some far away time, like 7-8 months after this (If it occurs, of course).
You could personally try arguing in a 30 minute debate with every single member of the community that likes KB, but you are simply not going to convince them because they are just going to use the "Oh im bad and you are a good player so it only benefits you and not us" argument and there is nothing you are going to be able to do that, so for now, just push for a limitation/nerf on KB, and then when people get used to it, push for a full removal, but as it is right not it won't happen.


I will again state that I would 100% agree with a removal of KB2, since it would just make the server 300 times more fun, PvP wise especially on conquest and rivinas, but radical reforms don't come before moderate reforms, so just bear with it for now

I agree with you, a lot of players are completely addicted to KB and against its removal. The main thing that I wanted to accomplish with this forum, if actually removing KB is not possible, is at least to bring the topic up for discussion while also introducing the fact that KB is not a necessary component of pvp, and really isn't a fair mechanic. If more people start to see and understand this then at least I accomplished something, even if they are still against the removal of KB cause they like using it.

 

[berdb]

Suggestion on KB Nerf
-Make the sword's KB2 be dependant and the sword cooldown

will make knocking charges 1000x harder

 

[Melon]

Well, I guess I will try and make this argument one last time before giving up hope. I will try to be as concise as possible, my entire argument can be read earlier on in this thread.

The core issue with KB is that there is simply no counterplay (exclude webbed bolas for now, I will get to that later). Every current mechanic or feature used on Loka has another that works against it, or something that helps balance it out. Shields-axe, more shulkers-less inv space for pots, debuffs-debuff resistance, cobwebs-water bucket, crystals-damage to self, firestone/no offhand-more space for pots. Even generally in pvp there is counterplay to everything, if someone holds space bar you play for space, if they hold w you crit, if they strafe you focus on hit selects and chains, etc. There is always a counter, and this is where KB encounters an issue. There is really nothing that you can do when playing against KB, if you are hit once you are immediately sent completely out of range. The only way to play around this is through the use of webbed bolas, which are immediately rendered useless the second another player appears. For a player trying to chase a kill, they are afforded no counterplay or way to try and secure it if the other player begins using KB. Once they decide to kite there is nothing you can do. Even in a normal trade there is nothing to do against it, you can't kb jump through it cause you still take at least 6 blocks of kb, and if you mistime it you will go even further.

I understand the argument that KB is an important tool for a new player who needs to generate space, but there are plenty of tools that will fill this void if KB is made less powerful. The only reason that they are not used is due to how simple and overpowered KB currently is; there is no reason not to carry it.

For a newer player there are many things that they can utilize to avoid qding, they can carry cobwebs, carry a punch bow, carry a shield, do better at playing around their team, or the classic of going to pg and practicing tanking damage in a corner to work on their refills.

If KB were to remain in its current state, I would suggest an item like the Webbed Bola that could be applied to oneself, making the player impervious to KB 2 for a set period of time. Would provide the KB benefit from the Webbed Bola, but would make it so that it could be used in team fights(and conquest). Outside of this, I don't see any decent way to limit KB outside of what has previously been suggested in this forum. For those who disagree with me on KB, please tell me how I am supposed to realistically play against it, outside of just praying they don't use it until they are drained.

 

[Cryptite]

I appreciate the well thought-out and well written post Melon.

I'm not advocating for this change just yet but it just sounds like KB should be an ability, which means it should have a cooldown. The ability to spam kb in a 360 and successfully punch everybody you touch back in short order is, to me, the big problem with KB. Having a big kb ability isn't bad by itself, but the fact that it is infinitely usable is the gameplay element that is, frankly, wrong. If you need to create space, you should have to consider when to use that ability just the same as somebody has to consider when to use a bola on somebody.

 

[glory]

Honestly conquest is so dead it doesn’t even matter anymore

 

[PETI]

yea conquest is lowk dry af

 

[capybara]

Yeah and you have to ruin other peoples' experience because you cant step up...
If you are gonna post just to troll, dont do it

not trolling but okay im bad kb helps me kill laggers so