What in the world is wrong with people

[shadewguy]

What can sentries do productively with log block that a guardian or higher cant do at that time or even later?
They can find out who griefed and that's it. The problem with this is all they can do with that information is to tell the higher admins so the higher admins can make a judgement. For the most part this information can be misused and is misused. There is no reason they need the power to identify block history so they really shouldn't have it. That is just my opinion though and i really see no way that logblock can be used productively by a sentry.

 

[Newdood]

I want you all to listen to this and wonder.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TVz7MiFhAk[/youtube]

 

[MrAlchemy]

<3 Oh you... I love that song!

 

[Newdood]

<3 Oh you... I love that song!

I had a feeling you would.

 

[Zor95]

What can sentries do productively with log block that a guardian or higher cant do at that time or even later?
They can find out who griefed and that's it. The problem with this is all they can do with that information is to tell the higher admins so the higher admins can make a judgement. For the most part this information can be misused and is misused. There is no reason they need the power to identify block history so they really shouldn't have it. That is just my opinion though and i really see no way that logblock can be used productively by a sentry.

It's a difficult situation.

When I was a Sentry I did much of the xray, griefer, and hacker hunting, chat moderation, and so forth. At that time though we didn't have the same restrictions that we do today. We also had a lot fewer admins period so there wasn't any time to fool around with powers. If you weren't doing your job then it was quite obvious to the whole server which sometimes paid dearly.

Now, that the demand for Sentries is lower they don't need so many powers. However, we still can't restrict the rank so much that they can't be of any help. That's why most apply for Sentry: to help. Also, what happens when there is an influx of hackers and such and we need their assistance?

Just some food for thought.

Unrelated, Alchemy is right. This isn't a big deal. If the rules were not clear (are they ever?) then hopefully everyone understands now what should be done. Case closed?

 

[Defgnww]

Fish harder Psy, bait that hook a bit better, I might bite haha

Ya'll can try and make this a "big" deal but it's just another hiccup. The world goes on.

The world goes on.
Or nobody can actually see anything correctly and ignore the fact that you are terrible at your job on the server.

 

[MrAlchemy]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c[/youtube]

 

[Defgnww]

Continue to play it off. One day I will make everyone aware.

 

[Psychedelic98]

What if sentries were told to only log block serious situations, and each log block is reviewed. Give them a 2 day ban to put a temporary stop to serious hackers/griefers which would also be reviewed by guardians+.

 

[shadewguy]

Zor,

I'm not really sure how logblock can be used to stop hackers, sentries can ban people for hacking without need of logblock, but I see your point as to why anyone would want to apply for sentry with no powers. Perhaps that is something for the higher admins to discuss. Perhaps logblock could be replaced with different powers that you all can discuss. (maybe a mild form of teleportation like /home?) Either way I see your point of view but I really dont see a use for logblock by sentries and I am sure there are others that would agree with me. Just my opinion though and I think its removal could end a lot of issues.

 

[Defgnww]

Let's just do a mass demotion.

 

[Zor95]

Let's just do a mass demotion.

The part I hate most about being an admin is that we seem to have no rules, but every rule at the same time. In other words, though little is written down about us there are very specific expectations about our behavior. If we disappoint, in most cases the first thought is to demote. Every admin reacts differently to this, but in some cases it creates fear. Fear that if we make the wrong decision it will be our last. Now this is mostly unrelated to Alchemy, but Def (and everyone else), I ask that you don't expect Guardians to jump up at every chance to get their hands dirty in a conflict. I also agree with Lea that rather than call for punishment the admin(s) be taught how to deal with each situation properly.

That said, we admins do not have an excuse for poor behavior. All of us (including Sentries) are representatives of this server. If are rude, ignore complaints, or show extreme bias towards one side then that should be taken care of.

 

[Zor95]

Zor,

I'm not really sure how logblock can be used to stop hackers, sentries can ban people for hacking without need of logblock, but I see your point as to why anyone would want to apply for sentry with no powers. Perhaps that is something for the higher admins to discuss. Perhaps logblock could be replaced with different powers that you all can discuss. (maybe a mild form of teleportation like /home?) Either way I see your point of view but I really dont see a use for logblock by sentries and I am sure there are others that would agree with me. Just my opinion though and I think its removal could end a lot of issues.

Hackers are often griefers and vise versa, so LogBlock can be a very useful tool. But yes perhaps it could be disabled until a time when it is needed again, if there is one. I'm sure it will be discussed by the higher admins.

 

[Defgnww]

Let's just do a mass demotion.

The part I hate most about being an admin is that we seem to have no rules, but every rule at the same time. In other words, though little is written down about us there are very specific expectations about our behavior. If we disappoint, in most cases the first thought is to demote. Every admin reacts differently to this, but in some cases it creates fear. Fear that if we make the wrong decision it will be our last. Now this is mostly unrelated to Alchemy, but Def (and everyone else), I ask that you don't expect Guardians to jump up at every chance to get their hands dirty in a conflict. I also agree with Lea that rather than call for punishment the admin(s) be taught how to deal with each situation properly.

That said, we admins do not have an excuse for poor behavior. All of us (including Sentries) are representatives of this server. If are rude, ignore complaints, or show extreme bias towards one side then that should be taken care of.

I'm not saying instant demotion for one bad thing.. there is a limit though and I believe many people have exceeded that limit. (Not you)

 

[Psychedelic98]

Zor,

I'm not really sure how logblock can be used to stop hackers, sentries can ban people for hacking without need of logblock, but I see your point as to why anyone would want to apply for sentry with no powers. Perhaps that is something for the higher admins to discuss. Perhaps logblock could be replaced with different powers that you all can discuss. (maybe a mild form of teleportation like /home?) Either way I see your point of view but I really dont see a use for logblock by sentries and I am sure there are others that would agree with me. Just my opinion though and I think its removal could end a lot of issues.

It seems like we aren't suffering from a lack of sentries, so why do we need to give them perks to apply? The best way to prove that you'll be a guardian is taking some time to help the server with little powers.

 

[Zor95]

Zor,

I'm not really sure how logblock can be used to stop hackers, sentries can ban people for hacking without need of logblock, but I see your point as to why anyone would want to apply for sentry with no powers. Perhaps that is something for the higher admins to discuss. Perhaps logblock could be replaced with different powers that you all can discuss. (maybe a mild form of teleportation like /home?) Either way I see your point of view but I really dont see a use for logblock by sentries and I am sure there are others that would agree with me. Just my opinion though and I think its removal could end a lot of issues.

It seems like we aren't suffering from a lack of sentries, so why do we need to give them perks to apply? The best way to prove that you'll be a guardian is taking some time to help the server with little powers.

Agree and disagree.

The jump from Sentry powers to Guardian is already quite large. If Sentry powers are reduced much more then we won't have an accurate measure of how that player will treat their powers when promoted. Sometimes we can judge simply by character, but power really can corrupt so it's difficult.

 

[Zor95]

I'm not saying instant demotion for one bad thing.. there is a limit though and I believe many people have exceeded that limit. (Not you)

I'm aware of what you are working on, but if you could list all the issues you disagree with then we can attempt to set solid rules for them now.

 

[Defgnww]

We have a handful, a small handful, of good helpful admins here that enforce stuff fairly. But there are a lot that don't and don't deserve to be an admin. We have got to stop ignoring that fact and take action.

 

[JocelynReed]

I agree and disagree with many of the points here


I feel that most sentries (except comp) don't abuse logblock

but at the same time, I don't think that sentries really need it all that much. As a sentry, the powers I use the most are /kick /mute /ban for enforcing chat rules. normally when a grief occurs guardians handle it, before I can get there.

If logblock is taken away for sentries I will be fine with it. however I want to point out that guardians abuse it too.

 

[JocelynReed]

I am not really sure kinda at a lose for the whole sentries/logblock battle

I feel that the fight is based off admins logblocking stealing/raids

I don't think this behavior has been only sentries. I see Zor's point in needed "sentry powers" to be a measure of how they will behave as guardians.


Sentries can steal and pvp. It is my belief that we are not required to be neutral. I freely admit that I am not