Welcome to our Forums!

Type /register while in-game to register for a forum account.

What in the world is wrong with people

Zor95

Well-Known Member
Slicer
Guardians have definitely abused powers. Some of it has been against clear instruction, others fall under those expectations I mentioned. Either way, rules for all admins needs to be given priority so we can avoid situations like this.
 

Psychedelic98

Member
Slicer
Thieflord304 said:
In my defense, Comp was done with his admin duty, and was leaving so..Yeah :D.
You still took advantage of a sentry doing what he could to help someone who needed it when the guardian online didnt step up.
 

Thieflord304

Member
Slicer
Psychedelic98 said:
Thieflord304 said:
In my defense, Comp was done with his admin duty, and was leaving so..Yeah :D.
You still took advantage of a sentry doing what he could to help someone who needed it when the guardian online didnt step up.

Actually..at this point, Zor took over.
 

Zor95

Well-Known Member
Slicer
Thieflord304 said:
Psychedelic98 said:
Thieflord304 said:
In my defense, Comp was done with his admin duty, and was leaving so..Yeah :D.
You still took advantage of a sentry doing what he could to help someone who needed it when the guardian online didnt step up.

Actually..at this point, Zor took over.

He was still answering my questions but meh. What's done is done.
 

JocelynReed

Member
Slicer
Def, I am not sure why you are sooooooooooo focused on sentries. I don't totally disagree with you. however changing the powers of sentries doesn't actually solve anything, its like putting a band aid on a bullet hole. logblock abuse has been happening with higher ranks as well


I think its time Loka educates their admins sentries and up (yes I include myself in this)

images
 

blessjung14

New Member
Slicer
I don't think its a matter of power abuse, but a lack of specific requirement. For the sentries, I see committed sentries (like computer) that are out to help slicers, settler, wanderers, etc. , but also, I see the sentries (not naming, but there are many) that are online but refuse to speak or offer help or are never online. I think that the sentry role is the pivotal point in becoming a Loka ADMIN! The sentry position should be where the admin responsibilities are truly shown, if these admin qualities (such as leadership, responsibility of powers, and openness to helping) are not shown in the sentry position, I think that the rank should be removed from that member. There is no need to allow an uncharacteristic sentry to be titled "Sentry" and, of all, given the powers of a sentry. I see this position as a time of admin training, and admins should be supportive of sentries. Another flaw I see in the Sentry admissions process is that the selection of sentries tend to be based on relation rather than merit. The principle of an ADMIN is to help, but if the admissions committee selects someone that has a lot of hours but lacks the characteristic qualifications, it is hiring an employee that will not work.

All in all, I think we should all reconsider what it means to be an admin!

Also, the situation with Mr. Alchemy: He is always helping me and is a qualified Guardian.

I think there is a little to much political bias, such as favoritism, on this server that hazes our vision of what is truly right and wrong.
 

shadewguy

New Member
Bless,

That was a really good post even though i disagree with some of it. I think you really outlined what the real issue is and that is the fact that no one is truly biased so we need a set of concrete rules to base our actions on. Someone might use their powers for what they perceive as good and someone else may perceive that action as abuse. It is a similar case to the pvp/thieves vs builder debate currently going on in the state of the server forum. One side feels they are doing what is within their limits to do as is outlined by the server where as the other side feels harassed and abused. You can not be truly without bias if you play on this server so a set of rules for admin powers seems the correct course of action as well as perhaps a review of the power/rules (including logblock for sentries!) currently in place for all players. I leave it in the hands of better minds than mine but thanks for reading. :D
 

JocelynReed

Member
Slicer
blessjung14 said:
I don't think its a matter of power abuse, but a lack of specific requirement. For the sentries, I see committed sentries (like computer) that are out to help slicers, settler, wanderers, etc. , but also, I see the sentries (not naming, but there are many) that are online but refuse to speak or offer help or are never online. I think that the sentry role is the pivotal point in becoming a Loka ADMIN! The sentry position should be where the admin responsibilities are truly shown, if these admin qualities (such as leadership, responsibility of powers, and openness to helping) are not shown in the sentry position, I think that the rank should be removed from that member. There is no need to allow an uncharacteristic sentry to be titled "Sentry" and, of all, given the powers of a sentry. I see this position as a time of admin training, and admins should be supportive of sentries. Another flaw I see in the Sentry admissions process is that the selection of sentries tend to be based on relation rather than merit. The principle of an ADMIN is to help, but if the admissions committee selects someone that has a lot of hours but lacks the characteristic qualifications, it is hiring an employee that will not work.

All in all, I think we should all reconsider what it means to be an admin!

Also, the situation with Mr. Alchemy: He is always helping me and is a qualified Guardian.

I think there is a little to much political bias, such as favoritism, on this server that hazes our vision of what is truly right and wrong.


I question if you truly understand some of the situations facing this server. You talk about the server showing political bias, yet you reference comp as a model sentry.

As for Sentries:

''Sentries for the most part are chat admins'' - Magpie

Sentry Rank
"This is our sub admin rank. Their job is to help catch rule breakers and help out new players and also support/help the full admins. They are especially important in times when there is no full admin online and when the server is very full. They have the best of both worlds as they can play the server like any other player (they can pvp, steal, etc). "

As a Sentry, I have looked over the chat, kicked and banned spammers. I got in a punch fight with a hacker in nether with Scoot (we were both murdered) but in the end the dude was banned. I have logblocked cases of extreme clear grief. I have reported glitches to higher admin, and looked out for xrayers. I have passed on countless bits of info to the higher admins in fact.

I still pvp and raid. However, that doesn't make me a bad sentry. I currently have no plan on applying for guardian, some of us are happy to just stop here. I often watch over the chat in times when no other admin are online. Not all of us define sentry the same way.
 

Defgnww

Active Member
Slicer
JocelynReed said:
Def, I am not sure why you are sooooooooooo focused on sentries. I don't totally disagree with you. however changing the powers of sentries doesn't actually solve anything, its like putting a band aid on a bullet hole. logblock abuse has been happening with higher ranks as well


I think its time Loka educates their admins sentries and up (yes I include myself in this)

images

Wtf? I always hate on Guardians and up 24/7, and the one time I mention sentries I am only focused on sentries?

You can't teach those that can't learn. I've already tried but none of you are listening.
 
K

KenuDragonfire

Guest
Er... what the hell?

Sentries used to not have enough power, and now they have too much;

Used to not be enough admins, now we need more demotions;

Alch had a super awesome application, now he is a lazy good-for-nothing;

New is supporting peace;

Admins now have restrictions on what they can and cannot do;

All the admins hate their jobs (oh wait, nothing new);

There is absolutely no Mop hate/blame in this post;

I sort of agree with the title.
 

Defgnww

Active Member
Slicer
KenuDragonfire said:
Er... what the hell?

Sentries used to not have enough power, and now they have too much;

Used to not be enough admins, now we need more demotions;

Alch had a super awesome application, now he is a lazy good-for-nothing;

New is supporting peace;

Admins now have restrictions on what they can and cannot do;

All the admins hate their jobs (oh wait, nothing new);

There is absolutely no Mop hate/blame in this post;

I sort of agree with the title.

.....
...........
.................
deep in the darkness of stupidity and ignorance, I hear a lovely voice........
......

I like you Nouvy!
 

blessjung14

New Member
Slicer
Well the reason I said computern was a good sentry was because he tried to help out a grief situation. Right?
Yes, you are right, I don't know enough to truly observe and come to a solid conclusion. However, I do know that the sentry role needs not to be reconstructed, but reformed. Even though you do not wish to apply for guardian or a higher role, the role as a sentry comes with power....and what comes with power?... responsibility. If a power is given to a person, it should be used for the benefit of the server, which is to prevent grievers. To my understanding, admins abuse block logging. However, if you remove the power of block logging as a sentry, there would be no ultimate test to see how well a sentry can control and be responsible with their power. Therefore, I think that if a sentry does not follow the responsibilities of a sentry (catch grievers and help members) their title should be revoked. I don't think that a irresponsible sentry should be left with powers they do not deserve. It is fine for a sentry to pvp and raid because it is part of the game. The reason pvp and raid is not prohibited to guardians + is that they can teleport and have even more powers, but block logging is not in any way correlated with pvp-ing and raiding.

To: JocelynReed
In your situation, I think it is completely reasonable to remain a sentry and want to remain a sentry. However, the responsibilities of a sentry should be maintained when you and other sentries have that "sentry" title and exclusive powers.
 
K

KenuDragonfire

Guest
If I remember correctly from my super flame-tastic post, the general conclusion was, they'd rethink the admin situation and whatnot and that is how we now have applications.

Problem is though, they never really re-thought of the ranks... basically had the same power, nobody really got demoted except for Epic who said he wanted to be, and even now, Mop was only demoted to Sentry temporarily for admin abuse (not meaning to bring that into the spotlight). What is really being done about it? It's less brought up mainly because Zor is an admin and I play less, and we were the whiniest people about it.

So, if we make Sentry a complete-chat moderator rank, we now cut our working admin force by a decent amount, and have only our current guardians left. That sucks.

We change the ranks around a bit, demoting a bunch of people, cause a bunch of chaos, and er, still same result as above.

We put in admin rules that are enforced by Crypt and Mag for like 2 weeks and then are just given up on; no real effect there.

What can we do? Whitelist the server so everyone currently playing is stuck with everyone else permanently? And then bad apples are cut out of the gated community? That'd be quite a few steps back.

So... what CAN we do?
 

Cryptite

Elder
Staff member
Elder
A very important point to be made, for those wanting precise cause and effect rules for admin punishment and ruling, is that when you become a Guardian+, many decisions are not cut and dry examples like Lots of Grief = Ban. There's a pretty big amount of judgement and rule weighing that has to take place with each and every circumstance of a situation.

I fear some of you want extremely specific rules at spawn so you can know exactly what you can and can't do, but that's just not a realistic situation most of the time. Yes, griefing is bannable, but not every single broken block is a grief worth banning. I agree the rules need to exist and that they probably need a look-over, but we simply cannot provide exact examples for everything. Trust us or not, we have to evaluate situations on a per-case basis and we may not be able to follow the rules of punishment to the letter each time.

As for those of you who still believe that sentries get their rank out of political bias; remember, once again, that while you guys are allowed and encouraged to post your thoughts on application threads, the decision is made, really, by just Mag and I. I think that for the most part it is agreed that Mag and I are neutral on most of these conflicts, so I would hope that you trust us to pick people on what we perceive is merit, not popularity. But at the same time, recall that admin ranks are not concrete, nor are Sentries, and if we find that sentries are abusing their powers and not acting the part they signed up for, we'll demote them if necessary.

As it has been stated before, though, one mistake does not necessitate a demotion call. We are going to make mistakes, but we will also try to correct them and get to the bottom of them. As for what Nouv thought, admins don't exactly have a huge swath of powers. We have powerful ones, sure, but it really boils down to kick, ban, smite, jail, logblock... Ranks may not have been rethought like you may have hoped, but what was rethought was who we felt would be capable of filling those ranks.

The problem with being an admin is that no matter how much good you do, all it takes is one screw-up before everybody wants your head. It's an understandable ideology, but it is not a realistic one for a minecraft server. If you're upset that an admin who got demoted eventually got repromoted, it's because we felt they learned their lesson and we still value their ability to help run the server.

I ask that you all exercise some restraint here on a situation that really only involves a small few people. This thread probably didn't need to explode this much, but I feel it may've done some good for us all to vent our feelings. If it stays civil, I'll keep it up, but if it devolves too terribly much, I will have to lock it.

-Crypt
 

Cryptite

Elder
Staff member
Elder
Defgnww said:
So I guess there will be no reform? Great.

If that's all you took away from my post, then so be it. Reform isn't something we announce to the public. Many times we try to handle things internally as admins instead of announcing to the server our every action. I didn't say we weren't gonna change anything; I just was making the point at how extremely quick many of you are to find fault with decisions we make that you don't agree with, when, face it, somebody will always disagree with our decisions no matter how small or large they may be.
 
Back
Top