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Implemented Shields

Steak__

Steak__

Well-Known Member
At their current state shields are completely broken and take away all elements of skill. Due to the fact that you can spam shield and not take any damage or kb I as well as many others believe that this is not an element of pot PVP. It is a completely different kind of PVP. What Loka is turning into is at its core just jumping and holding a shield. After hours of discussing I genuinely believe the best way to keep shields balanced is to only allow them in conquest when a player is charged. To use a shield, a player would have to get a charge, therefore, taking out the unnecessary nonsense in-between. A nerf is desperately needed. An axe is not a good enough counter when you are fighting any shield players that can predict your axe when you use it.
 
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Lampp_ said:
So instead of preparing for a shield player you just act like they dont exist? You are making 0 sense and if you cant hotkey a axe or webs or both into your hotbar then how are you gonna tank them critting you even without a shield and if you are gonna complain about not a enough inventory space put it into your echest Should we stop bringing kb to hit people off charges? should we stop bringing shield to take said charges? you cant use the argument of "you cant get set up on the fly fast enough"
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Nobody is saying that shield players don't exist and aren't valued in thee loka community. What is being said is that shields take some of the enjoyment and skill out of pvp. It is the same problem that is existing with crystals. They both are spammy and take enjoyment away that is why people are asking that there be something done.
 
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even though i was memeing a bit in this thread i agree with the fact that shields are broken, my idea would be making it like cubecraft, which is shields block only a part of the damage (on cubecraft u take knockback with shields so on loka remove that) it would fix the fact shield players are "unkillable" as in they have to pot more often due to actually getting hit and it would still keep the superiority of shield users in objective play as they still dont take kb but theyre able to use the shield as often as they want which makes adding cooldowns and ultimately nerfing objective players unnecessary
 
jakeman5 said:
Nobody is saying that shield players don't exist and aren't valued in thee loka community. What is being said is that shields take a some of the enjoyment and skill out of pvp. It is the same problem that is existing with crystals. They both are spammy and take enjoyment away that is why people are asking that there be something done.
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about crystals i thought a good solution is reverting them back to vanilla but simply reducing damage
 
casperistrash said:
even though i was memeing a bit in this thread i agree with the fact that shields are broken, my idea would be making it like cubecraft, which is shields block only a part of the damage (on cubecraft u take knockback with shields so on loka remove that) it would fix the fact shield players are "unkillable" as in they have to pot more often due to actually getting hit and it would still keep the superiority of shield users in objective play as they still dont take kb but theyre able to use the shield as often as they want which makes adding cooldowns and ultimately nerfing objective players unnecessary
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I think this is a good idea however when a player is charged have the shield act as a regular vanilla shield just to make charges still possible
 
FoxyBearGames said:
So that people can just sit one block below and take 0 damage? I don't think this is the nerf people think it will be.
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yes that is what everyone knows crystals do and it stops a turtle pot juggernaut from killing every person not aware of them crystalling because its their first fight/first fight against someone crystaling
Steak__ said:
I think this is a good idea however when a player is charged have the shield act as a regular vanilla shield just to make charges still possible
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or make the shield block even more damage while you're charged so theres more counter to charge players because as we know one single player can single handedly win a fight (nabsin :V) and dealing damage to them while theyre taking charges (even if its not much, maybe 1 heart per crit) would make it easier to defend (i know defense is extremely easy but defending inhibs is too hard and should get some help)
 
Most of you guys have played potpvp for years and are good at it. Most of the shield players have played shield PVP for years and are good at it. I don't know why you expect to be able to instantly counter us lol.

As much as you guys like to say, shield pvp isn't skillless, brain-dead fighting. The non shield players who have switched to shield pvp, being good players, continue being good, which shouldn't be a surprise. And to be honest, they really only use a shield, in a pvp scenario, as if they were getting a charge, at least from what I've seen except a very small amount of people. A lot of the time shield pvpers are the ones who die the fastest in conquest especially the nonexperienced ones. Yesterday alone there was a Rivi fight where 5 members of a full nearly a full shield Rivi team died in the first minute of the fight which showed it's entirely possible to fight against shield pvp. And there's been so many times where I've seen good players complain about having a shield in their offhand because it messed up their potting.

Shields are only OP in 1v1s too (and small ganks I suppose). In conquest, shield is used much less, really only when someone tries to single you off.

Extending the shield cooldown isn't a bad idea though. I think if the shield cooldown was around 10 to 15 seconds it would be much more balanced. + the shield disable sound is a necessity.
 
Frxnkey said:
Most of you guys have played potpvp for years and are good at it. Most of the shield players have played shield PVP for years and are good at it. I don't know why you expect to be able to instantly counter us lol.

As much as you guys like to say, shield pvp isn't skillless, brain-dead fighting. The non shield players who have switched to shield pvp, being good players, continue being good, which shouldn't be a surprise. And to be honest, they really only use a shield, in a pvp scenario, as if they were getting a charge, at least from what I've seen except a very small amount of people. A lot of the time shield pvpers are the ones who die the fastest in conquest especially the nonexperienced ones. Yesterday alone there was a Rivi fight where 5 members of a full nearly a full shield Rivi team died in the first minute of the fight which showed it's entirely possible to fight against shield pvp. And there's been so many times where I've seen good players complain about having a shield in their offhand because it messed up their potting.

Shields are only OP in 1v1s too (and small ganks I suppose). In conquest, shield is used much less, really only when someone tries to single you off.

Extending the shield cooldown isn't a bad idea though. I think if the shield cooldown was around 10 to 15 seconds it would be much more balanced. + the shield disable sound is a necessity.
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Loka isn't regular pot pvp tho you take 33% more damage and things like spam clicking with an axe to disable a shield will mess you up cause the other person can just crit you out before your sword cooldown is over
 
casperistrash said:
yes that is what everyone knows crystals do and it stops a turtle pot juggernaut from killing every person not aware of them crystalling because its their first fight/first fight against someone crystaling
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You literally drop to end crystals in vanilla faster than on Loka, and it is just incredibly stupid that they do no damage if you sit below them as the crystaler instantly becomes much harder to kill.
casperistrash said:
or make the shield block even more damage while you're charged so theres more counter to charge players because as we know one single player can single handedly win a fight (nabsin :V) and dealing damage to them while theyre taking charges (even if its not much, maybe 1 heart per crit) would make it easier to defend (i know defense is extremely easy but defending inhibs is too hard and should get some help)
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Tying PVP mechanics to conquest mechanics is an objectively bad idea as making something PVP orientated depend on conquest is not good. It needs to work both in and outside of conquest. Sure, conquest can apply buffs or whatever but something like this would be ridiculous. This would make a hell of a lot more sense as a tgen module as opposed to a base mechanic. I think the best option that's been suggested is the shield cooldown or maybe even taking damage through shields, but both of these just are not good solutions either.
 
shield pvp tests a different set of skills and values than pot pvp
Loka at its core is a pot pvp server, so it makes sense to nerf items that don’t serve it’s primary functions just like how UHC has nerfed items/strategies that don’t reward what we mainly consider to be the meta (Nerfed trading, nerfed bows, nerfed axes, etc)

Loka should do the same to ensure a more balanced pvp experience for all, but it should also strive to make sure that (most) all items are still viable and useful to some extent (note from me: please take this into consideration when you think of a shield nerf)

the ideal for me is just make shields take durability damage way more so that they eventually break if u don’t keep tabs on their durability (my shield after a long conquest fight is a little under half dura) and also increase shield disable timer from 5 seconds to 15-25 seconds depending on admin preference. this would make it so that there are serious repercussions to getting your shield disabled, and it’d make bringing axes much more viable and useful, in conjunction with my last suggestion: shield disable noise :D

- hypertotodile

as for my 2 cents, I agree that shields are heavily overpowered, as I have survived multiple exchanges and 2/3v1s I should not have with the shield. However, I think the outright removal of shields (not for charges, but as a pvp item) is just overkill. There are counters to shield players, even if it is hard to do as I know a huge majority of Loka are pot pvpers, if not at least shieldless players.

As some of my UHC friends suggested, I think a longer cooldown to a shield when it is disabled is a good idea to the shield problem. It makes shield still somewhat usable in fights, but it also gives the chance for basically everyone else to kill the shield player. No more "I disable their shield, they get 2 crits on me and shield again after 3 seconds". There is no perfect nerf to shields to make both the shield and shieldless community 100% satisfied, but I feel like this is the closest it can get.
 
hiy0u said:
shield pvp tests a different set of skills and values than pot pvp
Loka at its core is a pot pvp server, so it makes sense to nerf items that don’t serve it’s primary functions just like how UHC has nerfed items/strategies that don’t reward what we mainly consider to be the meta (Nerfed trading, nerfed bows, nerfed axes, etc)

Loka should do the same to ensure a more balanced pvp experience for all, but it should also strive to make sure that (most) all items are still viable and useful to some extent (note from me: please take this into consideration when you think of a shield nerf)

the ideal for me is just make shields take durability damage way more so that they eventually break if u don’t keep tabs on their durability (my shield after a long conquest fight is a little under half dura) and also increase shield disable timer from 5 seconds to 15-25 seconds depending on admin preference. this would make it so that there are serious repercussions to getting your shield disabled, and it’d make bringing axes much more viable and useful, in conjunction with my last suggestion: shield disable noise :D

- hypertotodile

as for my 2 cents, I agree that shields are heavily overpowered, as I have survived multiple exchanges and 2/3v1s I should not have with the shield. However, I think the outright removal of shields (not for charges, but as a pvp item) is just overkill. There are counters to shield players, even if it is hard to do as I know a huge majority of Loka are pot pvpers, if not at least shieldless players.

As some of my UHC friends suggested, I think a longer cooldown to a shield when it is disabled is a good idea to the shield problem. It makes shield still somewhat usable in fights, but it also gives the chance for basically everyone else to kill the shield player. No more "I disable their shield, they get 2 crits on me and shield again after 3 seconds". There is no perfect nerf to shields to make both the shield and shieldless community 100% satisfied, but I feel like this is the closest it can get.
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hyper is right thank you hyper you are smart and i agree and everyone else has been useless. (shield player being non biased and smart thanks)
 
Steak__ said:
Loka isn't regular pot pvp tho you take 33% more damage and things like spam clicking with an axe to disable a shield will mess you up cause the other person can just crit you out before your sword cooldown is over
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I agree, that's why I said earlier that shield disables should be much longer than 5 seconds. Something that I like to do when disabling a shield is pressing "wasd" (in that order) to get something similar to a circle strafe and spam click then. If done at a proper position it'll disable their shield and u will be out of the distance to where they can hit you which can deter their crit chain.
Someone gave the suggestion of getting a certain amount of fully charged hits would disable a shield too which isn't entirely a bad idea either.

Also, I'd like to add for all the people that say shield is a skillless item or whatever, how come if a shield is given to a random player, they don't perform as well as say HyperTotodile? Also, if shield is such an OP item shouldn't top damage and kills be dominated by shield pvpers?
 
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